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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Work capability issues and ESA  →  Thread

ESA transfers to UC due to natural migration

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Daphne
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Thanks Sharon - and if you can update me on where the escalation has got to that would be helpful - my contact via stakeholders has asked

Andrew Dutton
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I’m just dealing with one now, claimant migrated from WRAG ESA, told he has to produce sick notes and complete UC50, then told that even if this is not required he must wait for a decision, then told that even if LCW element is payable, he will not get it for three months.

dizzymare
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Andrew Dutton - 01 March 2018 01:13 PM

I’m just dealing with one now, claimant migrated from WRAG ESA, told he has to produce sick notes and complete UC50, then told that even if this is not required he must wait for a decision, then told that even if LCW element is payable, he will not get it for three months.

Andrew, we have just had an acknowledgement from the service centre that fit notes, UC50’s etc don’t have to be done (so at least a little closer to resolution??) . In our area at least, the issue seems to be with the jobcentres not completing forms (MGP1) and the benefit delivery centre taking time to action the said MGP1s to verify entitlement to ESA and which group.

dizzymare
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and the plot worsens ....

I have now been told that everything has been confirmed for one of my clients, and they now have the required MGP1 and they will pay 2 months arrears of LCWRA (from start of claim Jan- feb, and feb - march) However, now the WCA is due for review. They have said that this review date is a ‘prognosis date’ and “unlike ESA” they do not pay past the prognosis date. He will have to wait for the outcome of a new WCA. During this time, there will not be a LCWRA element on his claim, and this will only be reinstated once he the outcome of the WCA is known!

My question is, is this yet another example of UC making things up as they go alone, or are they actually correct? given that sending out a new UC50, waiting for the clmnt to return this, waiting for apt for WCA, and then waiting for the outcome, could take several months, this will leave vulnerable claimants in hardship due to a fall in income of £318 per month

I would appreciate any clarification on this issue

thank you

Andrew Dutton
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I would argue that they are talking through their corporate hat.

They can find it necessary to have a new WCA under Reg 41 UC Regs, but someone transferred from ESA is treated as having LCW/LCWRA in the UC claim (reg 19 UC Transitional Provisions Regs) and I do not think they can rescind that.

I think it is time for a complaint - demand to know which UC Regs they claim to be exercising.

Daphne
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They have to have grounds to carry out a supersession - under reg 26 of the Universal Credit, Personal Independence Payment, Jobseeker’s Allowance and Employment and Support Allowance (Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 2013 they can carry out a supersession when they’ve received evidence from a healthcare professional - but until your client’s had the WCA and that evidence has been received they have no grounds to supersede.

Neil Couling tells me he’s looking into the case…

Dan_Manville
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Sharon…

Which service centre is dealing with you? Is it Walsall? I’ve got a similar case in process and I’m concerend about that “we don’t pay past the prognosis date” business. I’ll need to warn my person if that’s a possibility.

[ Edited: 7 Mar 2018 at 11:46 am by Dan_Manville ]
dizzymare
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Daphne - 07 March 2018 09:58 AM

They have to have grounds to carry out a supersession - under reg 26 of the Universal Credit, Personal Independence Payment, Jobseeker’s Allowance and Employment and Support Allowance (Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 2013 they can carry out a supersession when they’ve received evidence from a healthcare professional - but until your client’s had the WCA and that evidence has been received they have no grounds to supersede.

thanks Daphne. That is exactly as I thought, but there are so many little unexpected differences with UC that I thought I might have missed something.

HI Dan - yes it is Walsall. We seem to be making some progress with the LCWRA/UC50s/fit note business, and the partnership manager is trying to arrange for more training for JC staff as this is where the issue lies it seems, and just when you think you are making progress, there is a new issue to argue! (not good for my blood pressure)

dizzymare
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yet more gobbledygook .....

I have raised the issue of the removal of the LCW/LCWRA element at the review date (or prognosis as they refer to it) and provided the appropriate legislation to indicate that a supersession would be required, and this must be based on evidence of a change (usually in the form of a WCA) This was sent to the service centre.

I have now recd the following response ...


“The extract I have provided below gives a clear indication of what happens when a claimant transfers from ESA to UC when they have a LCWRA;

” G1005 A UC claimant may already have been assessed for LCW and LCWRA for the purposes of ESA. Where

1. it has been determined that the claimant has LCW or LCWRA following an assessment under ESA legislation1 and

2. a claim for UC is made while the determination in 1. is current “

I have responded that this only confirms what we already know (ie that a new WCA is not needed if there is already a previous determination that is current (at the time of transfer to UC) but I have asked where it says that the LCW/LCWRA should be removed pending a new assessment. I have also indicated that this is guidance and not law, and have asked where is the legal basis for their approach (which regulations they are using)

I await further correspondence but just thought I would keep people updated

BC Welfare Rights
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You have to give them credit - it takes quite a feat of imagination to translate that guidance into that outcome…

Dan_Manville
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dizzymare - 07 March 2018 01:27 PM

HI Dan - yes it is Walsall. We seem to be making some progress with the LCWRA/UC50s/fit note business, and the partnership manager is trying to arrange for more training for JC staff as this is where the issue lies it seems, and just when you think you are making progress, there is a new issue to argue! (not good for my blood pressure)

Your blood pressure aside it might be edifying to know that my client with an expired prognosis period was paid LCWRAE and all the WRRs switched off a couple of days ago; I don’t think this is systemic.

dizzymare
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well that is good to know Dan, at least they are getting something right but once again, inconsistency!

Dan_Manville
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dizzymare - 09 March 2018 03:04 PM

, inconsistency!

I think incompetency is closer to the mark… twas ever thus!

Stuart
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Written answer yesterday on merits of automatic IT links between ESA and UC for natural migration cases -

We have made changes to smooth the transition onto universal credit for employment and Support Allowance (ESA) claimants.We have streamlined the process, with more information from ESA assessments now being passed on to universal credit. Universal credit is replacing ESA and will be available for new claims in every Jobcentre by December 2018. We will begin the managed migration of existing ESA claims to universal credit in July 2019. Integrating with this system would mean that other important universal credit features would need to be delayed in order to implement this.

 

Daphne
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Daphne - 16 February 2018 02:25 PM

FOI response obtained by Martin Williams which explains the process and form (MGP1) which is supposed to be used when a claimant who was on ESA migrates to UC

Another FOI response to Martin answering his supplementary questions from the one above about the MGP1 form which is used to gather information about the ESA claim. Interestingly -

‘... there has not always been a process to transfer a previous Work Capability Assessment decision from Employment and Support Allowance to Universal Credit Full Service.’