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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Work capability issues and ESA  →  Thread

ESA transfers to UC due to natural migration

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Andrew Dutton
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letter from DWP today, which says (in part):

‘After checking with a UC Full Service expert, I can confirm that if a customer does have LCW or LCWRA from a previous decision while claiming ESA then the decision is transferred to UCFS from the beginning of the claim, however a Decision Maker has to approve this’.

The last bit allows for an uncomfortable possibility of delay….

Gail Knight
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Jon (CHDCA) - 04 September 2017 12:32 PM

We’ve seen a similar letter to Gail’s. It’s worth noting that page 2 of our letter does include the standard info saying if you disagree then you have to go through an MR before appealing. I would guess that page 2 of HFCAB’s letter might do likewise? If so, then you wouldn’t normally be able to appeal directly as Elliot suggested.

(That said, there may be an argument that your note querying entitlement should have been taken as an MR request against the original awarding decision, and this letter should stand as the MR Notice itself. I don’t know whether HMCTS would buy that or not).

Yes ours has the appeal rights on the back too,
it may be worth noting that I use a standard letter I give to my customers to upload to the UC journal when an appeal has been won and they are now on UC.
This particular case after winning appeal on 8th August it was sorted out 1st September which was pretty quick, I always tell customers to expect at least a 4 week window once an appeal won and this is when it is only ESA so I was very surprised at the quick response from this.

zoeycorker
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Gail Knight - 04 September 2017 03:11 PM

Yes ours has the appeal rights on the back too,
it may be worth noting that I use a standard letter I give to my customers to upload to the UC journal when an appeal has been won and they are now on UC.
This particular case after winning appeal on 8th August it was sorted out 1st September which was pretty quick, I always tell customers to expect at least a 4 week window once an appeal won and this is when it is only ESA so I was very surprised at the quick response from this.

Gail - could you attach a copy of your standard letter please - I’ve got a couple who are currently undergoing an ESA appeal - the hearing is this Friday - and they’re now claiming UC due to being in a full service area.

thanks

Gail Knight
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zoeycorker - 06 September 2017 08:57 AM
Gail Knight - 04 September 2017 03:11 PM

Yes ours has the appeal rights on the back too,
it may be worth noting that I use a standard letter I give to my customers to upload to the UC journal when an appeal has been won and they are now on UC.
This particular case after winning appeal on 8th August it was sorted out 1st September which was pretty quick, I always tell customers to expect at least a 4 week window once an appeal won and this is when it is only ESA so I was very surprised at the quick response from this.

Gail - could you attach a copy of your standard letter please - I’ve got a couple who are currently undergoing an ESA appeal - the hearing is this Friday - and they’re now claiming UC due to being in a full service area.

thanks

Her you go Zoe

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Daphne
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SarahJBatty
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Thanks Daphne for doing the letter.  Great to see NAWRA and the Rightsnet forum able to gather evidence from advice workers of what is happening on the ground and challenge the Government in this way.

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Reply from Neil Couling in response to letter to David Gauke - attached - apparently the issue has been resolved since June.

If anyone has had problems with people migrating from ESA to UC since June and LCW/LCWRA not being paid/called for WCA please let me know so I can go back to him.

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Daphne
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Apparently, according to a written answer yesterday, noone has contacted David Gauke about the problems with transferring from ESA to UC…

Andrew Dutton
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In the same spirit of wilful, evasive sophistry, I take that as an invitation to go to him and his Ministerial team directly and personally with every problem that comes up, without troubling those working for him.

Daphne
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Andrew Dutton
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I have just collated and read all of these letters. It is quite an experience.

My late father would have called our man a ‘collector’s item’.

Is there such a things as ‘complacent-aggressive’? Gad.

An outrageous attitude is on display here, which boils down to ‘Go away and stop bothering me’.

I also think that, so many years after UC was hatched, ‘testing and learning’ on the backs of actual claimants is simply not acceptable.

Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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Andrew Dutton - 16 February 2018 11:41 AM

I have just collated and read all of these letters. It is quite an experience.

My late father would have called our man a ‘collector’s item’.

Is there such a things as ‘complacent-aggressive’? Gad.

An outrageous attitude is on display here, which boils down to ‘Go away and stop bothering me’.

I also think that, so many years after UC was hatched, ‘testing and learning’ on the backs of actual claimants is simply not acceptable.

‘I have just collated and read all of these letters. It is quite an experience’

It certainly is!

No doubt NC would love the W & P committee to stop inconveniencing him too!

Thanks Daphne worth the individual members subscription alone!

Daphne
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FOI response obtained by Martin Williams which explains the process and form (MGP1) which is supposed to be used when a claimant who was on ESA migrates to UC

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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I’m confused (what’s new?I hear you say). The letter accompanying the form states (my emphasis):

Attached is the current version of the MGP1 form, which is used by Universal Credit (UC) staff to gather information about previous benefits. There is a section allowing for a Work Capability Assessment decision outcome (group), date of decision and date of next referral to be recorded.

The ‘Work Related Activity Group’ and ‘Support’ groups become‘ Limited Capability for Work’ and ‘Limited Capability for Work Related Activity’ respectively in UC.

When an MGP1 is received, case managers are instructed via prompts in the UC system to input the previous Work Capability Assessment decision to ensure the correct amount of UC is awarded.

How can the same form be used by UC case manager to gather information and then be received by them? How do they know they need to gather information to use on the form? Are the UC staff and the UC case managers different people?

Jon (CHDCA)
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Paul, I would guess that the UC “use the form” to gather info by requiring their colleagues at ESA claims maintenance to complete and return it??

Daphne - 16 February 2018 02:25 PM

FOI response obtained by Martin Williams which explains the process and form (MGP1) which is supposed to be used when a claimant who was on ESA migrates to UC

Dan Manville also obtained a copy of that form last year, see post #23 in this thread. Comparing that pdf version to this spreadsheet version, I think it’s fairly clear that DWP truncated the form for Dan in their response, and somehow cut it off at the end of page 1. Hence the earlier comments in this thread expressing surprise that the form apparently failed to gather info about pre-existing LCW status.