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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Universal credit migration  →  Thread

DWP plans for both managed move to UC and voluntary move to UC

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P_Carysforth
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Hi Daphne, very rare set of claimants - but wonder if they have considered mixed age couples on CTC?
Just a thought on mixed age couples, it came up on a query recently where a protected mixed age couple (PC and HB)  claimed UC when they moved house. They didn’t need to claim UC but when you do an online UC claim it comes up and lists the benefits that UC is replacing. Technically UC isn’t replacing Pension Credit, but there wasn’t a warning that pension credit would be affected.
Just thinking that there could still be some protected mixed age couples on pension credit/IR ESA/IS etc and CTC - if the UC info is in the renewal information they might claim by accident and no warnings for those on pension credit. This could be really bad if SDP in PC, as SDP in PC doesn’t entitle someone to TSDPE, so if naturally migrate could lose loads - bad enough with the loss of the pensioner premium!

Andrew Dutton
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Further to this – has DWP addressed any of the concerns raised in the above posts? Have there been any further meetings?

Also:
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/welfare-rights/news/item/dwp-launches-campaign-aimed-at-encouraging-tax-credit-claimants-to-check-if-they-might-be-financially-better-off-on-universal-credit

The ‘campaign’ appears to be a little more realistic now – e.g. admitting they will hit you for debts and making clear some TC claimants could lose out, but the onus is still on the claimant to check.

DWP should at least be offering to provide anyone who wants it with a list of debts owed -  including the very, very old ones that have never been collected but will be via UC – and a clear statement of how much they will take from any UC claim.

Perhaps an explanation of why these debts have never been collected would also be appropriate?

A warning about the Benefit Cap would also be useful – especially that it will affect the whole UC award, not just housing costs.

It would also be helpful for people to be told by DWP NOT to apply for UC where it is not appropriate and that they should wait for ‘Move to UC’ and transitional protection to come into place.

I suppose DWP would argue that this could all be done by the handy independent advice service they are telling people to go to – without of course providing any co-operation, support, or funding to that service. If it is available locally and not too swamped with work.

And I still can’t see that a ‘Move to UC’ that has yet to get going can be completed by 2024.

Daphne
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PCarysforth - 02 February 2022 12:47 PM

Hi Daphne, very rare set of claimants - but wonder if they have considered mixed age couples on CTC?
Just a thought on mixed age couples, it came up on a query recently where a protected mixed age couple (PC and HB)  claimed UC when they moved house. They didn’t need to claim UC but when you do an online UC claim it comes up and lists the benefits that UC is replacing. Technically UC isn’t replacing Pension Credit, but there wasn’t a warning that pension credit would be affected.
Just thinking that there could still be some protected mixed age couples on pension credit/IR ESA/IS etc and CTC - if the UC info is in the renewal information they might claim by accident and no warnings for those on pension credit. This could be really bad if SDP in PC, as SDP in PC doesn’t entitle someone to TSDPE, so if naturally migrate could lose loads - bad enough with the loss of the pensioner premium!


Sorry Pamela - completely missed this when you posted it - I can certainly raise this with them.

Andrew - our next Move to UC meeting is on 11 April so I’ll feed back any info after that

Peter Turville
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Daphne - 30 March 2022 11:54 AM
PCarysforth - 02 February 2022 12:47 PM

Hi Daphne, very rare set of claimants - but wonder if they have considered mixed age couples on CTC?
Just a thought on mixed age couples, it came up on a query recently where a protected mixed age couple (PC and HB)  claimed UC when they moved house. They didn’t need to claim UC but when you do an online UC claim it comes up and lists the benefits that UC is replacing. Technically UC isn’t replacing Pension Credit, but there wasn’t a warning that pension credit would be affected.
Just thinking that there could still be some protected mixed age couples on pension credit/IR ESA/IS etc and CTC - if the UC info is in the renewal information they might claim by accident and no warnings for those on pension credit. This could be really bad if SDP in PC, as SDP in PC doesn’t entitle someone to TSDPE, so if naturally migrate could lose loads - bad enough with the loss of the pensioner premium!


Sorry Pamela - completely missed this when you posted it - I can certainly raise this with them.

 

Would it be that rare? We have seen several cases of mixed age couples who have been receiving both PC (inc. addition for dependent children) and HB at the same time as UC having wrongly been advised by HMRC/DWP to claim UC (due to having a dependent child).

Couples in this situation could build up substantial overpayments of PC (&HB;) which, presumably, DWP would seek to recover from UC. In our cases DWP appeared to be unaware of the o/ps (once we had ensured claimants UC stopped and PC/HB continued). But wouldn’t suggest claimants can rely on the apparent lack of exchange of info. between PC and UC in this situation!

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Peter Turville - 30 March 2022 12:24 PM

Would it be that rare? We have seen several cases of mixed age couples who have been receiving both PC (inc. addition for dependent children) and HB at the same time as UC having wrongly been advised by HMRC/DWP to claim UC (due to having a dependent child).

Couples in this situation could build up substantial overpayments of PC (&HB;) which, presumably, DWP would seek to recover from UC. In our cases DWP appeared to be unaware of the o/ps (once we had ensured claimants UC stopped and PC/HB continued). But wouldn’t suggest claimants can rely on the apparent lack of exchange of info. between PC and UC in this situation!

Couldn’t agree more Peter, we’re seeing all sorts of stupidity from DWP and from local authorities with respect to mixed-age couples.

See the attached “decision notice” for MAC who have been continuously entitled to HB since before 15 May 2019 - it’s so bad, it would be laughable if it wasn’t so concerning that people are being told to claim UC when they shouldn’t be,

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Daphne
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MareeH - 21 January 2022 10:43 AM

Maybe just a minor point(!) but wasn’t there supposed to be new legislation passed before managed migration starts?

If I understand correctly the existing legislation only covers the very tightly defined pilot scheme (maximum 10,000 claimants) and I recall that this was done without the full commons debate that will be necessary for the full legislation.

Looks like it’s in draft format and they’re trying to do away with 10,000 cap but SSAC scrutinising - https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/welfare-rights/news/item/governments-current-plan-to-move-people-from-legacy-benefits-to-universal-credit-creates-a-significant-risk-for-those-who-are-reliant-on-benefits-and-for-the-dwp-in-delivering-it

Daphne
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Some notes from the meeting today which was about managed migration. I also raised the issues of mixed aged couples and getting details of any debts owed prior to moving to UC and they are taking these away too - will post when I have any info…

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Mike Hughes
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Gotta love that they’re wary of a lack of statistical significance for Harrogate. Wasn’t the entire creation of the Pension Service predicated on a around 80 “customer interactions” with older people on the phone who, funnily enough, told them they preferred contact by phone?

I note that the learning appears to be exclusively around the greasing the wheels to ensure a smooth move to UC and still not around identifying those for whom a move to UC would be an obvious detriment.

JennyRussell
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Currently I get the disabled worker element of WTC (no PIP) and have a partner living separately. Planning on getting married in about 4 years but will continue current living arrangements.

A conveniently timed managed move with transitional protection would be welcome, as getting married not a change of circs per se for UC!

[ Edited: 11 Apr 2022 at 01:41 pm by JennyRussell ]
Andrew Dutton
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The obvious failure to talk to Adult Social Care (they haven’t, otherwise they would have said ‘Yes’ to the question) is scandalous. By inference, this failure is not going to be addressed either.

Gareth Morgan
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Concerned about a lot of groups but particularly low earning self-employed on tax credits.  Given the confusion that many people, understandably, have about personal vs business resources and assets, there may be a significant number of people capital barred from UC.

Daphne
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Just to clarify the meeting today was just about managed migration - so when people don’t have a choice - not about the voluntary move - tho I’ve submitted questions on the voluntary move campaign separately

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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 30 March 2022 12:43 PM
Peter Turville - 30 March 2022 12:24 PM

Would it be that rare? We have seen several cases of mixed age couples who have been receiving both PC (inc. addition for dependent children) and HB at the same time as UC having wrongly been advised by HMRC/DWP to claim UC (due to having a dependent child).

Couples in this situation could build up substantial overpayments of PC (&HB;) which, presumably, DWP would seek to recover from UC. In our cases DWP appeared to be unaware of the o/ps (once we had ensured claimants UC stopped and PC/HB continued). But wouldn’t suggest claimants can rely on the apparent lack of exchange of info. between PC and UC in this situation!

Couldn’t agree more Peter, we’re seeing all sorts of stupidity from DWP and from local authorities with respect to mixed-age couples.

See the attached “decision notice” for MAC who have been continuously entitled to HB since before 15 May 2019 - it’s so bad, it would be laughable if it wasn’t so concerning that people are being told to claim UC when they shouldn’t be,

Paul - would you be able to email/DM me any details on this - DWP were keen to know more when I raised the issue at stakeholder meeting this morning.

They also said they would take away the lack of advice for MACs or warnings about PC stopping and address it - let’s see what they come up with…

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Daphne - 12 April 2022 01:56 PM

Paul - would you be able to email/DM me any details on this - DWP were keen to know more when I raised the issue at stakeholder meeting this morning.

They also said they would take away the lack of advice for MACs or warnings about PC stopping and address it - let’s see what they come up with…

Thanks Daphne but it’s already been passed onto an official in the Pension Service who is looking into what did (or didn’t happen) here and is also liaising with our adviser on the specific case in question. As such, it’s probably best to let them do some digging for now.

Owen_Stevens
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Stephen Brien, of SSAC, just posted this in a meeting about managed migration (re: the draft UC (TP) Amt Regs 22): SSAC should have concluded its external consultations in the coming weeks. We will then need some time to confer internally and with DWP before publishing our report for ministers to consider.