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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Housing costs  →  Thread

Underpayment decision notice

Jon (CANY)
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Welfare benefits - Craven CAB, North Yorkshire

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Client has an HB overpayment of £3K, due to various apparently-undeclared changes, mainly tax credit income. On appeal, we pointed out that some of the tax credit figures used to create the overpayments were too high. This has been accepted - or at least data matching with HMRC has made the case for us - and the overpayment has duly been offset by underpayments of £2K. We have received a list of the underpayments created, and the date periods to which they relate. From these, I would think that the £1K claimed figure is now correct, but it is a complicated series of calculations (there were other changes, eg non-deps coming and going). The client would like to see the actual income figures used. We have lodged another appeal against the new amount, with the proviso that it will be withdrawn if they show their working, but the LA say that do not provide breakdowns of underpayments, and “it is not our procedure to verify these details”.

Given that the calculation of the underpayment is part of how they have worked out the amount of the overpayment still owing, are they actually obliged to provide a calculation, as per Schedule 9 para 15 of the HB regs?

For the record, I believe that the LA are not trying to be obstructive, they seem genuinely incapable of getting their system to produce the calculations, in which case perhaps we will have to be satisfied with “well it looks about right”. And, would we be right to say that it could be problematic to let this case go to tribunal, because if the decision that £1K is owing is set aside, that will just leave the previous decision standing that £3K is owing..

J Membery
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Revenues and Benefits Manager, Aylesbury Vale DC

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If the new decision was less than a month ago you can request a statement to reasons which the LA will have to provide ebven if they have to do it manually.

Even if the decision were more than a month old, the decision letters will have to have given details of the income used.

Even, if for some reason, the LAs computer system can’t re-print letters then the LA can give you a print off from their system of the income details held for different periods.

If they refuse to do that then a Data Protection request will require them to do it.

Edit - PS do you know what computer system they use?

Ros
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editor, rightsnet.org.uk

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hi

i think that if the local authority refuses to provide the breakdown, you could appeal on grounds that notice of decision invalid under reg 90 of HB regs -

notes to reg 90 in ‘Findlay’ (p.462) mention CH/5217/01 where decision notice held to have been invalid because claimant not given calculation of excess CTB and so denied ability to appeal against calculation.

i can’t find decision on UT site - or in toolkit - anyone out there got it?

in relation to your point about danger of appealing - you wouldn’t go back to £3,000 decision if successful - tribunal able to stand in place of decision maker to make correct decision. 

cheers ros

Kevin D
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Independent HB/CTB administrator, consultant & trainer (Essex)

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The text of CH/5217/2001 is attached - it is NOT the original CD and therefore I cannot guarantee it is 100% accurate.

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Stainsby
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Welfare rights adviser - Plumstead Community Law Centre

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I have attached a copy of CH/5217/2001 that I obtained from the Commissioners Office so it can be guaranteed to be accurate.

Its read only so if you quote from it use Kevin’s copy and cross check with mine

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Nolan Jose
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Benefits at Cornwall Council

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The La will have to give this information even if in a manual form, they must have used figures in order to calculate the reduced overpayment (underpayment)?

My guess is that their system is “Academy” if so they should be able to satisfy your request using “what if” function…

The underpayment letters on Academy (it seems), do not give figures used to calculate the various periods of overpayment but just show a reduced overpayment figure, how could you know if these are right? Having seen such letters I know I can’t!

Jon (CANY)
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Welfare benefits - Craven CAB, North Yorkshire

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Thanks for very much for the replies.

the decision letters will have to have given details of the income used

That’s what I thought. We have been shown some on-screen income figures, some of which could be printed from their system and some which could not. These lead me to suspect the right figures have now been applied in the calculations throughout, just because I can see nothing else that would account for the size of the underpayment. Whether this was done as a conscious decision, or is a result of the right tax credit income figures filtering through automatically, I’m not sure. Anyway, on the basis that the overpayment appears to be right as far as we can tell, the client decided today to withdraw the appeal. Not being able to see any calculations is very unsatisfactory. The LA have confirmed that they just can’t do “underpayments”. I don’t know what their system is. (It says Northgate at the top of the windows, but they also refer to SX3, if that means anything.)