PIP Appeal - Nothing in PIP2 Form

Hi

2 questions if someone can point me in the right direction.

1. Judges seem to be relying more and more on just what is in the PIP2 form (we did recently win a UT case, where the Judge ignored all evidence and simply went on the PIP2 form). This causes issues when clients didn’t write anything in the boxes and we later claim for this or if its worded incorrectly/not in detail? 

I normally say something along the lines of “completed on own, didn’t know how to complete form etc” but that just isn’t working.

2.  When there are no “formal diagnosis” until after the PIP2 form is filled in but symptoms and health issues were still there before the PIP2 form is filled in.

Any help and advice is greatly appreciated

1. This is a question of explaining an apparent conflict in the claimant evidence. On the one hand when unassisted they said no problems with an activity. Now they say something different. That needs to be explained. The explanation given depends on the actual reasons for it and you need to work through those with the claimant-

(a) did they misunderstand the question? How precisely? -  so here one might look at the actual wording of the question and whether given the client’s specific difficulties it covered them or not.

(b) often issues of shame etc. will be relevant. Claimant did not want to put details of toilet problems etc.

(c) often claimant thinks they can manage but when you actually talk to them about how this is then it becomes apparent that their version of managing does not meet the reg. 4(2A) criteria.

(d) lots of other things can happen as well - it all depends on the facts.

I think a large part of submission writing should focus on this sort of issue- ie explaining how the evidence properly understood should be weighed, dealing with conflicts etc. Often I see submissions which merely recount “this is what my client says” with no explanation or argument about “why should you believe them now?”- particularly difficult when “what my client says” simply seems unlikely or contradictory- dealing with this upfront is always wise.

2. What is relevant is the claimant’s circs at the date of decision. If the medical diagnosis was given after decision that may be evidence they also had this problem (albeit undiagnosed) at time of decision- that is particularly likely to be the case if their evidence given at time of/before decision was of difficulties which are consistent with the diagnosis they have now been given.

Hope that helps.

Martin

Judge has to rely on whatever evidence is available - if there is information missing from the PIP2 (or worse, where there is conflicting information), you will have to provide evidence in its place. Sometimes evidence given directly by the client at the hearing can suffice, other times you might have to add to that to shift the balance of probability.

Typically, if there is a condition that wasn’t mentioned in the PIP2 at all (often see this with incontinence etc), and if there is any reason to disbelieve the client’s own evidence, you can counter that with f.ex. medical reports from the time.

Martin Williams - 02 March 2023 01:21 PM

1. This is a question of explaining an apparent conflict in the claimant evidence. On the one hand when unassisted they said no problems with an activity. Now they say something different. That needs to be explained. The explanation given depends on the actual reasons for it and you need to work through those with the claimant-

(a) did they misunderstand the question? How precisely? -  so here one might look at the actual wording of the question and whether given the client’s specific difficulties it covered them or not.

(b) often issues of shame etc. will be relevant. Claimant did not want to put details of toilet problems etc.

(c) often claimant thinks they can manage but when you actually talk to them about how this is then it becomes apparent that their version of managing does not meet the reg. 4(2A) criteria.

(d) lots of other things can happen as well - it all depends on the facts.

I think a large part of submission writing should focus on this sort of issue- ie explaining how the evidence properly understood should be weighed, dealing with conflicts etc. Often I see submissions which merely recount “this is what my client says” with no explanation or argument about “why should you believe them now?”- particularly difficult when “what my client says” simply seems unlikely or contradictory- dealing with this upfront is always wise.

2. What is relevant is the claimant’s circs at the date of decision. If the medical diagnosis was given after decision that may be evidence they also had this problem (albeit undiagnosed) at time of decision- that is particularly likely to be the case if their evidence given at time of/before decision was of difficulties which are consistent with the diagnosis they have now been given.

Hope that helps.

Martin

Yes, that helps a lot thanks!

Va1der - 02 March 2023 01:28 PM

Judge has to rely on whatever evidence is available - if there is information missing from the PIP2 (or worse, where there is conflicting information), you will have to provide evidence in its place. Sometimes evidence given directly by the client at the hearing can suffice, other times you might have to add to that to shift the balance of probability.

Typically, if there is a condition that wasn’t mentioned in the PIP2 at all (often see this with incontinence etc), and if there is any reason to disbelieve the client’s own evidence, you can counter that with f.ex. medical reports from the time.

Thanks!