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Can’t claim New Style ESA and UC at the same time ish apparently using the NSESA online claims system?
Here’s a couple of extracts copy and pasted from another reputable site regarding claiming New Style ESA i found earlier.
Thought as there appeared to be some veracity to this it deserved a wider airing! See below!
‘It has just been brought to my attention… clients claiming UC and NSESA… when trying to complete the NSESA online application, are prevented from completing it online by the DWP…
They get a message on NSESA application page advising them to wait until they have their 1st UC statement before going ahead with the NSESA claim?’
‘Claiming New Style ESA
The process for claiming NSESA has changed.
Guidance now states that you can apply online or by calling the UC helpline, this is now the process for all claimants (including those who already get UC).
Currently the online claim system, for those who are getting or have recently applied for UC, will only allow you to continue with the process if you have received a UC statement’.
Just tried that myself, very strongly, and multiple times encourages to claim UC first.
EDIT: on the finer points, it doesn’t actually prevent you from claiming nsESA first, it says you can’t, but leaves the option to tick to proceed with nsESA claim open. Underhanded imho
Seemed like a good time for some insight into DWP thinking, so:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/why_does_online_nsesa_applicatio
[ Edited: 28 Jul 2020 at 01:59 pm by Va1der ]Crude copy and paste by me from the online claiming ESA page.
‘You can apply for New Style ESA if you’ve had a Universal Credit statement
If you’ve had a Universal Credit statement, you can apply for New Style ESA. This is called a dual claim.
If you’ve applied for Universal Credit, but not yet had a statement, do not apply for New Style ESA yet. Wait for your first Universal Credit statement. You can check if it’s there by signing in to your Universal Credit account. Once your statement is ready, you can come back and apply for New Style ESA.
What do you want to do?
Continue to apply for New Style ESA because I’ve had a statement from Universal Credit
Sign in to my Universal Credit account to check for a statement
Continue’
Just tried that myself, very strongly, and multiple times encourages to claim UC first.
EDIT: on the finer points, it doesn’t actually prevent you from claiming nsESA first, it says you can’t, but leaves the option to tick to proceed with nsESA claim open. Underhanded imhoSeemed like a good time for some insight into DWP thinking, so:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/why_does_online_nsesa_applicatio
At times it is very hard to make sense of DWP rationale, possibly a crude administrative attempt to reduce the near unavoidable overpayments of UC.
But that said, just yet another awful example of…......................that leaves a lot to be desired!
Just tried that myself, very strongly, and multiple times encourages to claim UC first.
EDIT: on the finer points, it doesn’t actually prevent you from claiming nsESA first, it says you can’t, but leaves the option to tick to proceed with nsESA claim open. Underhanded imhoSeemed like a good time for some insight into DWP thinking, so:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/why_does_online_nsesa_applicatio
Definitely let us know when you get a reply!
At times it is very hard to make sense of DWP rationale, possibly a crude administrative attempt to reduce the near unavoidable overpayments of UC.
But that said, just yet another awful example of…......................that leaves a lot to be desired!
[/quote]
At times we advise making a ns ESA claim to speed up getting a WCA (pre Covid) usually for a young person who needs the LCW status to get UC in education. They won’t get any ns ESA so no overpayment of UC there. I had thought UC were getting slightly better at making up nonsensical administrative procedures which they treat as law but maybe not.
We sometimes get clients who will clearly have no financial gain from claiming ESA as well as UC in the future but have the opportunity to backdate the ESA claim. If there is scope for the full three months backdating then waiting a month until first UC statement is available results in the loss of a month of ESA (= £322 at assessment rate or £492 if eligible for Support Group from day 1).
So for someone who wants to claim both does the system allow them to claim ns-ESA and then claim UC (even if on the same day)?
Just tried that myself, very strongly, and multiple times encourages to claim UC first.
EDIT: on the finer points, it doesn’t actually prevent you from claiming nsESA first, it says you can’t, but leaves the option to tick to proceed with nsESA claim open. Underhanded imhoSeemed like a good time for some insight into DWP thinking, so:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/why_does_online_nsesa_applicatio
At times it is very hard to make sense of DWP rationale, possibly a crude administrative attempt to reduce the near unavoidable overpayments of UC.
But that said, just yet another awful example of…......................that leaves a lot to be desired!
I did one of these on Monday, I just ignored the instructions, ticked the box to say that the cl had received a UC statement and made the claim - not herd anything yet to say that there are any problems( this cl actually had a ‘phone claim so i don’t know what sort of statement he’d get anyway).
The only reason we did this was because, despite the cl asking DWP several times during his UC claim, no one at DWP seemed able to instigate a NS ESA claim and we had to make an NS ESA claim as a last resort. It was , quite rightly, pointed out to the cl by DWP that he wouldn’t get any extra money by claiming NS ESA but we were doing this to make use of the backdating rules to get two or three weeks worth of NS ESA from the date his SSP stopped to the date his UC claim was made
We sometimes get clients who will clearly have no financial gain from claiming ESA as well as UC in the future but have the opportunity to backdate the ESA claim. If there is scope for the full three months backdating then waiting a month until first UC statement is available results in the loss of a month of ESA (= £322 at assessment rate or £492 if eligible for Support Group from day 1).
So for someone who wants to claim both does the system allow them to claim ns-ESA and then claim UC (even if on the same day)?
The legislation clearly does!
At times it is very hard to make sense of DWP rationale, possibly a crude administrative attempt to reduce the near unavoidable overpayments of UC.
But that said, just yet another awful example of…......................that leaves a lot to be desired!
At times we advise making a ns ESA claim to speed up getting a WCA (pre Covid) usually for a young person who needs the LCW status to get UC in education. They won’t get any ns ESA so no overpayment of UC there. I had thought UC were getting slightly better at making up nonsensical administrative procedures which they treat as law but maybe not.
Me too!
I could maybe have been more specific in the FOI - to ask for this, but I suspect the wording was implemented to ease an admin burden for DWP, and/or to fit better with how their IT system is designed. If it was well designed nsESA and UC would work in unison - a UC claim should automatically consider a nsESA claim simultaneously etc. By their own wording nsESA/JSA falls under the ‘UC-system’...
As it stands, I’m guessing the nsESA online application has just been slapped on top of an already unstable UC system. Hastily implemented because of Covid-19 etc. Instead of fixing their systems, they implement simple quick fixes that disadvantage claimants - this has been a constant problem since UC was introduced.
Just tried that myself, very strongly, and multiple times encourages to claim UC first.
EDIT: on the finer points, it doesn’t actually prevent you from claiming nsESA first, it says you can’t, but leaves the option to tick to proceed with nsESA claim open. Underhanded imhoSeemed like a good time for some insight into DWP thinking, so:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/why_does_online_nsesa_applicatio
At times it is very hard to make sense of DWP rationale, possibly a crude administrative attempt to reduce the near unavoidable overpayments of UC.
But that said, just yet another awful example of…......................that leaves a lot to be desired!
I did one of these on Monday, I just ignored the instructions, ticked the box to say that the cl had received a UC statement and made the claim - not herd anything yet to say that there are any problems( this cl actually had a ‘phone claim so i don’t know what sort of statement he’d get anyway).
The only reason we did this was because, despite the cl asking DWP several times during his UC claim, no one at DWP seemed able to instigate a NS ESA claim and we had to make an NS ESA claim as a last resort. It was , quite rightly, pointed out to the cl by DWP that he wouldn’t get any extra money by claiming NS ESA but we were doing this to make use of the backdating rules to get two or three weeks worth of NS ESA from the date his SSP stopped to the date his UC claim was made
Historically gatekeeping has been an ever present with NSESA, it would appear to be just another hurdle.
Don’t forget that claimants may need to future proof their benefit entitlement by claiming ESA at the same time as UC. ESA may stay in payment after a change in income or savings has taken someone off UC, but it needs to be claimed while the relevant tax years are still recent enough. This is why hurdles in the way of claiming ESA worry me greatly.
Don’t forget that claimants may need to future proof their benefit entitlement by claiming ESA at the same time as UC. ESA may stay in payment after a change in income or savings has taken someone off UC, but it needs to be claimed while the relevant tax years are still recent enough. This is why hurdles in the way of claiming ESA worry me greatly.
Absolutely!
Had raised this issue with DWP contacts in Scotland. They say that online claim process questions have now been changed as of 26 August so this form of gatekeeping shouldn’t be in place anymore. Apparently the questions had been changed due to Covid ...
I received a reply to the FOI on 17/08 (I just got back from leave): https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/why_does_online_nsesa_applicatio?post_redirect=1
Apparently the wording “was implemented as a temporary measure as the Department was no longer able to operate the standard dual claim processes due to the suspension of face to face appointment in Jobcentres.”
Does anyone know what this “standard dual claims process” is? As far as my experience goes, JCP staff remain relatively oblivious to new-style benefits, and just advises claimants to stick with UC.
Their response goes on to say that they intend to advice eligible UC claimants to claim nsESA later - if this does not happen there might be scope to argue for late backdating of nsESA claims in the future? On the basis of misadvice from DWP - anyone who claimed UC online during the period that wording was present could argue they wanted to claim nsESA at the same time.