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UC and Carer’s Allowance
We have a client whose adult son has recently been awarded PIP at a tribunal. Our client is his carer: she currently works part-time and is considering ending this and claiming benefits as a carer.
I’ve noticed that a carer does not have to be getting (or entitled to) CA in order to get the Carer Element for UC. This differs from Income Support (like IS, there is no requirement in UC for the claimant to be entitled to CA meet carer conditionality) . Is there, therefore, any advantage to claiming CA in these circumstances? I’d be particularly interested to hear from anyone with experience of assisting anyone to claim UC as a carer.
I think that you get Class 1 National Insurance Credits from CA whereas UC only gives Class 3 so worth claiming CA for that reason alone
Good point! thanks Billy
We have been rudely reminded that claimants on legacy benefits can lose their SDP if their carer has the carer element of UC (which can apply even when they don’t have CA in payment)
People on UC will of course want and need to be flagged as carers so that their conditionality is reduced - but will they be informed that if they get the CE the person they care for will lose their SDP?
I assume not…..
I was asked this question when giving training yesterday - does anyone know if the person being cared for is alerted if their carer claims UC with the carer element, ie a similar process to the page in the carer’s allowance form which the disabled person has to sign?
I couldn’t see that there was any such protection but I’d be interested to hear any views?
Added advantage in Scotland is that the carer has to be receiving CA to get the Scottish Carer’s Allowance Supplement. But still have to consider any impact on SDP.
Carer element and MIF issue
I have a client who is self employed with a MIF. Looking to establish her as a carer to remove her gainfully self employed (GSE) status and get MIF removed. (No loss of SDP for mum involved and no-one claiming CA). Profit at the moment is minimal and well below CA earnings limit but she does want to grow the business.
I just wanted reassurance that my thinking is along the right lines…..
Am looking at pros and cons of claiming CA and have concluded to claim CA and then if her profits grow above the earnings limit her CA will end and the carer element and her not GSE for the purpose of the MIF will continue…?
If she claims CA with three months backdating - I think that the D&A regs apply to the backdate award of the carer element but would they also apply to the lifting of the MIF retrospectively?
If she didn’t claim CA and her earnings did increase I assume at that point her CA would end the carer element continue?
If she didn’t claim CA what evidence of regularly and substantially caring do UC ask for to get just the element?
As an aside - Due to the impact of the MIF her mental health has deteriorated and we have now managed to get the MIF reduced to be based on 16 hours pending an LCW assessment..
I was asked this question when giving training yesterday - does anyone know if the person being cared for is alerted if their carer claims UC with the carer element, ie a similar process to the page in the carer’s allowance form which the disabled person has to sign?
I couldn’t see that there was any such protection but I’d be interested to hear any views?
This was raised by colleagues in a meeting yesterday - has the UC process side-stepped the provision that the cared-for person must sign off the caring arrangement?
‘Fraid we don’t know! But we think it may have….
I have raised this locally with our DWP roll out lead and the answer was not clear. Is the UC claimant asked if they have the consent of the person cared for to receive the career element? Does the person cared for have to actually give their consent?Seems the second of these is very unlikely to happen.
I have only ever helped clients make claims for CA using a paper form which have to be signed by the cared for, can anybody say what happens when CA claims are made online under the existing system. I know there is an advice note at the start that says you must tell the person cared for before claiming but is any proof of this required?
There are two areas of concern:
1) person cared for potentially loses the SDP without any say in it,
2) unless legacy benefit teams in DWP and local authority benefit teams are advised that SDP entitlement has ended it will continue in payment but will probably be picked up in the future by which time person cared for will have had an overpayment. This despite the fact they couldn’ have reported a change because they didn’t know anything about it!
In the long term when UC rollout is complete and SDP has disappeared this problem will go away. Suspect transition situation never thought about. It’s absurd these basic questions still arise when roll out has been underway for so long.
ADM para F6002 says “Carer element is paid at one rate. If the conditions for a carer element are met, the carer element, at £150.39 per month, should be included in the claimant’s maximum amount of UC.” This guidance has no suggestion that the claimant could decline to have the carer element paid.
I was asked this question when giving training yesterday - does anyone know if the person being cared for is alerted if their carer claims UC with the carer element, ie a similar process to the page in the carer’s allowance form which the disabled person has to sign?
I couldn’t see that there was any such protection but I’d be interested to hear any views?
This was raised by colleagues in a meeting yesterday - has the UC process side-stepped the provision that the cared-for person must sign off the caring arrangement?
‘Fraid we don’t know! But we think it may have….
Andrew, we have been concerned about this for some time, and have asked our partnership manager for clarification and also raised it at our JC meetings, but no one has ever provided an answer. I really don’t know how they check this, as anyone could say they were a carer, and give details of a family member etc who they knew received PIP. There doesn’t seem to be any protection for the cared for, though massive financial implications for them. Im going to raise this again (im not convinced anyone at the JC understands the implications)
I have only ever helped clients make claims for CA using a paper form which have to be signed by the cared for, can anybody say what happens when CA claims are made online under the existing system. I know there is an advice note at the start that says you must tell the person cared for before claiming but is any proof of this required?
As far as I remember there is an electronic tick box with a similar statement to the printed form. I would recommend using the online form, it’s a doddle to complete, you can print it out/store if needed and you get a confirmation email that it has been received.
https://www.gov.uk/carers-allowance/how-to-claim
Hi Debbie-
To try and answer your questions:
Am looking at pros and cons of claiming CA and have concluded to claim CA and then if her profits grow above the earnings limit her CA will end and the carer element and her not GSE for the purpose of the MIF will continue…?
I think that is right.
Carer element and MIF issue
If she claims CA with three months backdating - I think that the D&A regs apply to the backdate award of the carer element but would they also apply to the lifting of the MIF retrospectively?
Hmmmm… I’m not sure that CA itself is a qualifying benefit for UC etc (D&A) Regs sch. 1 para 31- the reason I say that is that the award including the carer element is not determined by having CA directly but by satisfying the conditions of entitlement (absent a need to claim and absent the employment condition). I would hope DWP would apply that rule anyway despite this. In terms of the MIF then I think that will have to be lifted from whatever date the SSWP accepts is the effective date for inclusion of the carer element as that is also the date on which they come within s.19(2)(b) (no work related requirements) and cease to be in the all work related requirements group who can have the MIF imposed.
Interestingly, on this one you might actually be better off (depends on facts) trying to argue that has been a carer throughout? If was a carer actually at date of claim for UC and that was within 13 months then could simply do a late MR and then appeal? Would be a total solution to the MIF- would not get tied up in late notification of positive change of circs nonsense as could say the circs have always been that she was a carer.
Carer element and MIF issue
If she didn’t claim CA and her earnings did increase I assume at that point her CA would end the carer element continue?
Yes that is right.
If she didn’t claim CA what evidence of regularly and substantially caring do UC ask for to get just the element?
They seem to just ask the claimant to say they are caring - like a declaration.
If she didn’t claim CA what evidence of regularly and substantially caring do UC ask for to get just the element?
They seem to just ask the claimant to say they are caring - like a declaration.
We’ve seen a couple of UC overpayments apparently caused by that question. Claimants naturally say that they care for a disabled partner, and it seems there isn’t always then a check that the right disability benefit is in place.
And when the overpayment is pointed out, UC then say they can only remove the erroneous carers element from the award if a declaration is made that caring has stopped…
I was asked this question when giving training yesterday - does anyone know if the person being cared for is alerted if their carer claims UC with the carer element, ie a similar process to the page in the carer’s allowance form which the disabled person has to sign?
I couldn’t see that there was any such protection but I’d be interested to hear any views?
This was raised by colleagues in a meeting yesterday - has the UC process side-stepped the provision that the cared-for person must sign off the caring arrangement?
‘Fraid we don’t know! But we think it may have….
Andrew, we have been concerned about this for some time, and have asked our partnership manager for clarification and also raised it at our JC meetings, but no one has ever provided an answer. I really don’t know how they check this, as anyone could say they were a carer, and give details of a family member etc who they knew received PIP. There doesn’t seem to be any protection for the cared for, though massive financial implications for them. Im going to raise this again (im not convinced anyone at the JC understands the implications)
just to add that I have now received a response from our local JC. Initially I was told that there were no checks other than checking that the cared for received the appropriate benefit. I know have been told that:
“There is a letter that is sent out as well (I have since discovered) it goes to the person who is being cared for and tells them the name of the person who says they provide care and advises that it may affect the SDP - it also includes contact details for them to get in touch if any of the information is incorrect.
I have also had a look on the feedback platform we use (JIRA) and this concern has been raised to the project and is currently under consideration and review - I have added some comments also and will let you know as and when we get any response back”