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submitting MR’s under full service
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Welfare rights worker - Oxford Community Work Agency
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from our local DWP partnership newsletter:
Reconsiderations in UC Full Service
Partners supporting a UC Claimants and Citizens Advice Bureaus please take note that you must not be submitting written requests for Mandatory Reconsiderations (MRs) where the UC customer is in Full Service. These requests should only be made through the claimant’s journal on their UC Online Account which, could be done via a computer terminal on partner premises if available.
We are not yet full service. So, for example, if a support worker, or CPN wants to send an MR or other supporting information in full service but doesn’t have access to the claimants on line account?? And the legal basis for this advice is??
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Locum adviser - CPAG in Scotland
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Hi Peter,
They seem to have gone back & forth on this a lot but latest I understood was that despite what was said previously, MRs can be taken by phone or in writing not just via the online journal. UC D&A regs aren’t that much help as only deal with application being received at ‘an appropriate office’ (reg 5) - the reg on procedure only really covers the supply of additional information (reg 20).
I think it’s arguable that given the regs don’t require a particular form in which the application should be delivered, it could take any form….
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Generalist Adviser, Southwark Citizens Advice Bureau
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When they refuse a claim they also close it—so the on-line journal is not available any more to ask for an MR 😊
At this point they write the unsuccessful claimant a letter explaining what has happened. That letter contains an MR address—or at least there is one somewhere, I have definitely seen one—and written MR requests to it.
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Welfare Rights Officer, Southway Housing Trust, Manchester
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Discussion in our office about whether this “digital only” approach could be challenged under the Equalities Act, on the basis that it restricts access to justice for those who lack the skills to effectively submit an online MR. (E.G. mental-health issues, English not first language, Learning Difficulties, Visual impairment).
Have the DWP carried out a risk assessment?
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Welfare rights worker - Oxford Community Work Agency
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Joined: 18 June 2010
Response from local partnership manager:
The advice was based on information we received. There have been difficulties with the post where written requests for Mandatory Reconsiderations (MRs) weren’t reaching UC Full Service Sites. However, we have now learnt that on-going corrective work has taken place to alleviate this and a claimant is able to request a MR either in person, on the phone, by putting a note in their journal or in writing by post in UC Full Service.
So its all the fault of post handling then?? Given that post handling regularly misdirect ESA MRs it would come as no great surprise!
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Welfare benefits adviser - Melville Housing Association, Midlothian
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We have been advised that if a paper MR is posted it seems to get lost and does not find its way to the correct place. It is therefore advisable to do the MR request digitally. However local JC+ would assist client to upload a file or scan through.
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Welfare Rights Officer, Southway Housing Trust, Manchester
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Wolverhampton is still serving it’s purpose (delay, obfuscation, incompetence), then?
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Solicitor, SC Law, Harrow
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Benny Fitzpatrick - 10 July 2017 10:12 AMDiscussion in our office about whether this “digital only” approach could be challenged under the Equalities Act, on the basis that it restricts access to justice for those who lack the skills to effectively submit an online MR. (E.G. mental-health issues, English not first language, Learning Difficulties, Visual impairment).
Have the DWP carried out a risk assessment?
i linked a vat case a while ago in another thread - online vat returns, human rights arguments - where the VAT tribunal agreed HMRC were breaching the human rights of 3 individuals who for reasons around disability/remote location/no IT skills couldn’t do stuff online. So it’s a valid argument that DWP aren’t taking on board….
will see if i can find the thread and link it…..
here:
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/10076/
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Tax and Welfare Rights Officer, Equity
Total Posts: 291
Joined: 10 March 2014
Hi there,
Just reading through this thread - very useful and helpful input from rightsnet members to a ridiculous situation created by the DWP.
Can I ask Peter if there has been any change so far and what you have been doing in practice? I have had difficulties representing a client in a full UC area. When it came to an MR, we wrote the letter for him, gave it to him to complete (as himself) and finish and take into the JCP with medical evidence. Suprisingly the original decision was overturned however the issue still remains that the DWP preventing representatives from representing through their new UC processes.
I think this also feeds in to the issues around implicit and explicit consent that reps have been experiencing under UC https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/11063/
The DWP need to be comprehensively challenged over this issue, especially with so many recent reports that have been critical of UC - e.g. select committee report on the gig economy (April 17), CAB report about UC and today the OBR report. Reps are needed more than ever.
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Welfare rights worker - Oxford Community Work Agency
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EKS_COTTON - 14 July 2017 11:04 AMHi there,
Can I ask Peter if there has been any change so far and what you have been doing in practice?
We are not a full service area yet so have no practical expereince. The statement was made by DWP in a news letter circulated by the regional DWP partnership manager. It was sent out a few days prior to a local conference DWP organised in advance of Oxon going full service in the autumn - hence we were very keen to get their response! As you see they immediately (with 48 hrs!) came back to us to confirm their original statement was wrong!
Of course it will be very helpful if people keep posting their experience of what is happeneing in practice.
[ Edited: 14 Jul 2017 at 12:06 pm by Peter Turville ]Most of my MRs are for right to reside cases where the claim has been closed.
Whenever I have posted to them to full service, they have (in 100% of cases) disappeared without trace.
Using the journal is not an option because you can’t add to it on a closed claim.
So I’m limited to making requests by phone. You can ask to be given 14 days in which to send further evidence to a named benefits centre and I have (in a couple of cases) used this as a chance to draft and send something explaining the case I’m trying to make.
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Welfare benefits - Craven CAB, North Yorkshire
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Can I ask what postal address people are using for full service? We have previously used ‘Mail Handling Site B, Wolverhampton, WV99 1AJ’, I’d have to check whether we’ve ever solely relied on that without also putting a message on the journal. I’ve also recently seen an address on a UC decision given as:
FREEPOST
DWP UNIVERSAL CREDIT
FULL SERVICE
As noted in this thread, these addresses with no postcode mean you can’t get proof of posting.
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Welfare rights worker - Oxford Community Work Agency
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Elliot Kent - 14 July 2017 12:16 PMMost of my MRs are for right to reside cases where the claim has been closed.
Whenever I have posted to them to full service, they have (in 100% of cases) disappeared without trace.
Using the journal is not an option because you can’t add to it on a closed claim.
So I’m limited to making requests by phone. You can ask to be given 14 days in which to send further evidence to a named benefits centre and I have (in a couple of cases) used this as a chance to draft and send something explaining the case I’m trying to make.
Elliot, given these problems with closed claims (which I’m sure have been mentioned in other threads), have you tried serving a written MR on DWP solicitors office and/or via client’s MP (pointing out the difficulty of doing it by the ‘preferred’ methods with a closed case)? It would be interesting to know what response that gained from DWP!
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Tax and Welfare Rights Officer, Equity
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The post code-less address not being post traceable has got to be illegal right?
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Welfare benefits - Craven CAB, North Yorkshire
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Joined: 16 June 2010
Saw recently a client has disputed a UC calculation (in my opinion more than one of her journal messages could have been read as an MR request and their reply as an MRN ...). Eventually it is sent to a specialist team, and the client receives a journal message asking her to ring the UC service centre, “as a declaration needs to be read out to you in order to refer your dispute to a decision maker”.
Any ideas what declaration she needs to hear by telephone in order that a DM can get involved?? The client found it difficult to ever get through on the phone, of course.
I’ve had the declaration read out to me a number of times. Its the usual fare - I agree that everything I have said is truthful and that I may be overpaid or prosecuted if it isn’t etc.
I have no idea why it is necessary.
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Welfare benefits - Craven CAB, North Yorkshire
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Ah, thanks Elliot. I think we’ve had MRs go through without that .. in this case there was a discrepancy between the claimant’s evidence and evidence from another govt department, so maybe that’s why they needed a “proper” declaration.
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benefitsowl.info, Manchester
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Jon (CHDCA) - 14 July 2017 12:31 PMCan I ask what postal address people are using for full service? We have previously used ‘Mail Handling Site B, Wolverhampton, WV99 1AJ’, I’d have to check whether we’ve ever solely relied on that without also putting a message on the journal. I’ve also recently seen an address on a UC decision given as:
FREEPOST
DWP UNIVERSAL CREDIT
FULL SERVICEAs noted in this thread, these addresses with no postcode mean you can’t get proof of posting.
Just found the following in a handout a local JC+ workcoach has given me, in preparation for full service in Manchester:
Signed delivery and recorded delivery must be addressed to:
UCFS Post, Canterbury BC, Nutwood House, Chaucer Road, Canterbury, Kent, CT1 1ZZ
It then follows this with the Freepost address as above for all other post.
I’ve attached a copy of the full document for context (and proof!)
File Attachments
- All_about_UC_Full_Service.pdf (File Size: 4069KB - Downloads: 2787)
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Tax and Welfare Rights Officer, Equity
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Many thanks for this really helpful information Giles.
Have just submitted a FOI request on this matter asking for documents on the exact procedure
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/mandatory_revision_request_proce
Dear Department for Work and Pensions,
I would be grateful if you could forward any documents- internal guidance and those for the public- on the exact procedure that a claimant should undertake, and that the DWP staff should follow, when someone in a Full service area wishes to request a mandatory reconsideration of a Universal Credit decision.
I particularly need confirmation of this issue:
Does a claimant needs to phone the service centre as well as writing on their journal, and how are they notified of this- including are claimants made aware of this before they request an MR?
(we have been told by Trafford Welfare Rights Service “A client from our advice line has requested an MR via her journal 3 times and had no response so when she rang the service centre - she was told that she had to ring them to request an MR and that it why no action had been taken”)
Thank you for your help in this matter - I look forward to your prompt response
Will post when get a response…. could be a while…..
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Welfare Rights Adviser - Southwark Law Centre, Peckham
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We are full service.
I have been using the Freepost address and copying the full MR request to the journal - for example;
‘I am being assisted by Southwark Law Centre. I wish to request a mandatory reconsideration of the…....decision that….......Below is a copy of the mandatory reconsideration that organisation has submitted on my behalf today by post.
“Copy and Paste the full MR request here - including organisation address”
Please carry out the mandatory reconsideration requested on my behalf.’
This is working. The only problem I am experiencing is that the subsequent MR notice is being issued solely via an upload to the client’s journal - which is somewhat problematic with some of my more disorganised clients.