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Withdrawing universal credit after moving in with partner
Client in gateway area claiming UC. He moved in with his partner at Christmas, she has Working Tax Credits. He told UC and she has received a phone call to say she must stop her Tax Credits and give UC her details. Is he able to end the UC claim stating that his intention was to end the claim when he moved in and then claim WTC with partner? UC said he could not and that they must claim UC.
Time is of the essence as full service is rolling out over the next 7 weeks.
I had a similar case – see http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/10714/ - and I think unless the UC claim was very convincingly withdrawn before they became a couple, they are caught by UC (etc) Claims and Payments Regs 9(8) -
http://lawvolumes.dwp.gov.uk/docs/a14-6701.pdf - and it is a UC claim.
The experience on the one I just did has not been good.
UC treated both claimants as subject to full conditionality and started threatening sanctions right away – both were ill, one was in ESA Support Group, but UC would not recognise this for some weeks and kept demanding 35 hours a week work-search or else.
Still trying to sort out whether sanctions were merely threatened or actually imposed.
Thank you I thought they may be stuck. Yesterday they received 3 phone calls;
i) UC advising that no payment will be released until she provides her details.
ii) UC advising that they had made an error and have to release the payment as he was single.
iii) UC advising that she does not have to close her Tax Credit claim.
None of this is recorded in his journal, it is phone calls from two different staff both who seem to be as confused as everyone else.
He has asked to withdraw and is waiting for another call, however reading reg 9(8)(a) would suggest it has to be UC.
This scenario reflects what I have come across - confusion and chaos from DWP who do not understand their own rules.
And this is just the gateway, there will be more and worse with full service…..
What a mess.
I would approach it like this:
Firstly, are they better or worse off on UC. Not all households will be worse off, but you need to look at their actual entitlement under the old and new benefit systems, their ability to cope with monthly payments, and their ability to cope with the increased conditionality (particularly for partners) under the UC system.
If you are sure they are better off on tax credits then they can consider ending their UC claim (the lobster boat maneuver). If you have not gone full service yet, and if they are in one of the areas where the gateway conditions prevent couples making a new UC claim, then they could make a new claim for tax credits etc. It is possible to end a UC claim by telling UC that you no longer want to claim it.
They will probably lose money in the short term. UC is calculated monthly, and its the circumstances on the last day of the “assessment period” that count in calculating an award. If they close the claim part way through an assessment period they lose out for that part month. For example if their assessment period runs from the 4th to the 3rd of every month, and they closed their claim today, there would get nothing for the period 4th January onwards.
Normally I’d say try to end the claim just after the assessment period ends, but in your case you are working against the clock to do everything before your area goes full service and the lobster boat docks. (Thank you Gareth, the metaphor keeps on getting better and better.)
Another problem to be aware of is that if someone’s UC payments stop because their earnings are too high, they remain locked into the UC system for six months anyway, so can’t use the option of deliberately ending their claim to return to legacy benefits. I’m not sure how this works in your situation as UC haven’t yet made a decision on their couple claim, so presumably can’t say that they are floating off UC but still tethered to the boat.
Best of luck,
Cordelia
I have had an exchange of emails with Julia at Housing Systems about this. My interpretation (and I don’t know what they think about it yet) is that Regulations are founded on an assumption that the UC award one of them was receiving ends by operation of law as soon as they become a couple but under Reg 9(8) a claim is treated as having been made by the couple in that same instant. As this is a new claim for a new award, the UC provisions in the 2012 Act have to commence all over again under the No 9 Order; the claim does not fail the gateway because Article 3(3)(c) commencement does not require the claimant to satisfy the gateway.
As I see it, as long as that deemed Reg 9(8) claim has not been determined it can be withdrawn under Reg 31 and they are then unable to make a fresh claim for UC because that would fail the gateway. There is nothing to stop them claiming legacy benefits.
Timing is an issue though. Reg 7 of the Transitional Provisions Regs would, I think, cause any pre-existing IS, HB and Tax Credits to end from the beginning of the former single claimant’s current AP (because APs are synchronised for forming couples under UC Reg 21(3)). So they need to watch that gap; and if the non-UC partner was on no benefits at all then any new legacy claim would run from the time when it is made. But if the legacy partner was on JSA or ESA the Transitional Regs do not apply and instead old-style ESA/JSA are abolished by the deemed Reg 9(8) claim under Article 4(2)(c) of the No 9 Order ... however, para (3) of Article 4 makes the abolition take effect retrospectively from the start of the current AP.
Tax Credits and HB could be backdated to cover the gap, but legacy DWP benefits would be more difficult.
So as Cordelia says, all other factors being equal they want to shack up on Day 1 of the AP and keep their fingers crossed that DWP understand they still owe a month’s UC for the AP just ended.
Hi HB Anorak,
Can I ask your opinion on one of my clients please:
We are in an area where gateway conditions apply. My client was a lone parent, and was drawn into the UC system when she moved in with her partner. Partner was already on UC.
They were paid UC for a few months, but her income meant that they floated off UC in January. They will probably not be entitled to any UC for the current assessment period either.
She has just contacted me to say that they have separated. She wants to return to tax credits as she was better off and had more predictable income with them.
If we contact UC and end the couple claim, she will be deemed to have made a single claim. I suspect that her income will float her off a single claim, but could she bring the single claim to an end before it is decided, then claim legacy benefits?
Does it make a difference if she is the first to notify UC or not? Unfortunately I don’t think it’s likely that she will be able to agree with the ex partner which one should do the notifying, and I don’t know whether he is likely to be proactive or not.
Hi, I have similar Lobster Pot situation with a young woman (aged 19 at the time) who became a Job seeker when 20 weeks pregnant back in June 2016 - she was forced to go on UC by DWP ( we are in UC live area). Baby was born in November 2017 remaining on UC with CTC am CHB claims. This young woman because under 25 is missing out on the Income Support Lone Parent Rate which is £73.10 per wk compared to the UC Standard Allowance for under 25’s of £53.31 and would be better off on this old system. On contacting DWP and asking to make a claim for IS they refuse. This young woman has also tried to make a claim for CTC but this has been turned down as she is on UC.
My concern is that she will be left without any income. Is the advice that we close the UC claim down at end of assessment phase and immediately put in claim for IS and CTC ? Is it possible that IS will be refused - are DWP within their rights to refuse IS? Any advice would be gratefully welcome as at present this young family are missing out.
Still live service? If so:
The reason why she cannot currently make a new claim for either IS or Tax Credits is because she is actually getting UC and therefore falls within the definition of a “UC claimant” under UC(TP) Reg 6. If she were to execute a carefully timed relinquishment of her UC award, she would cease to be a “UC claimant” as defined in Reg 6 and would be able to make a new claim for IS and Tax Credits. In most places outside NW England she would in any case fail the UC gateway (in fact she should have failed it in the first place, but what’s done is done).
Hi - this is VS using another account as unable to respond from my account. Thank u for your advice, I presume that to withdraw a UC claim you just call up DWP and ask to withdraw it?
I presume that to withdraw a UC claim you just call up DWP and ask to withdraw it?
Ha! Pob lwc.
Would you care to elaborate Gareth?
Sorry Dan, that was a bit short-hand-y. As Grwp Cynefin (Rightsnet throws a fit when I tried to put an accent over the W) work mainly in Welsh, I was thinking about the response I got when I spoke to the Welsh language UC line (always ring them, you get through much more quickly). Their answer was a blunt ‘amhosib’ (impossible). On that basis, “just give them a call"would require a certain amount of luck.
HI Gareth - yes I use the Welsh language DWP line and they advised that we could not close the UC claim down!
Throw their own guidance at them? See A4120-31
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/562420/adma4.pdf
If the guidance is followed, the award shouldn’t just disappear on the strength of a phone call - there is meant to be a superseding decision, which could then be appealable, which I think is an important safeguard.
I was thinking about the response I got when I spoke to the Welsh language UC line (always ring them, you get through much more quickly).
Has anyone tried ringing the Welsh language line about a claimant in England? In English.