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income support overpayment?
situaiton is a couple. both getting incapacity benefit, both getting middle care and both have underlying entitlement to carers premium.
one client has now had ib cut after a pca which is under appeal. I have informed carers allowance of this and also the local bdc of the change in circumstances.
my understanding is that carers should now come into payment for one client resulting in the loss of one sdp until the appeal is heard and hopefully won.
the problem i now have though is that following my call to carers they sent the client a new claim form (i dont see why she would need to reclaim and in the meantime income support have issued a payment which includes two sdp’s.
basically my question is could income support try to reover a overpayment of income support on the basis that carers should have come into payment as my understanding of the sdp is that it is only lost if carers is actually physically paid to a client but in this case that hasnt happened yet.
any opinions or experience of this would be great.
Unless I’m missing something, assuming both remain entitled to DLA at MRC, the loss of IB will not in itself affect the additional premiums paid with IS (whether SDP or Carers Premium).
Unless I’m missing something, assuming both remain entitled to DLA at MRC, the loss of IB will not in itself affect the additional premiums paid with IS (whether SDP or Carers Premium).
if the ib goes then for carers there is no longer an overlapping benefit which means the carers should go into payment.
I don’t think there would be any overpayment let alone a recoverable one.
As you say, the SDP only ends when CA starts being paid. A new CA claim is not needed here either. I’d be tempted to do nothing. You’ve notified the relevant offices after all. Once Carers Allowance come to their senses they’ll realise that CA should have been paid from the date that the claimant lost their IB. Consequently, they’ll backdate CA to that date. But arrears of CA do not jeopardise the SDP either by virtue of para 13(3ZA) to Sch 2 of IS Regs. Only when CA is being paid, eg weekly/4 weekly, does the SDP stop.
First, she should not have been sent a new claim form but a brief enquiry form (see R(G) 1/03 for guidance on this matter). Second, there is no interuption of IS until Carers Allowance actually comes into payment, effective from the date that the payment relates to.
I don’t think there would be any overpayment let alone a recoverable one.
As you say, the SDP only ends when CA starts being paid. A new CA claim is not needed here either. I’d be tempted to do nothing. You’ve notified the relevant offices after all. Once Carers Allowance come to their senses they’ll realise that CA should have been paid from the date that the claimant lost their IB. Consequently, they’ll backdate CA to that date. But arrears of CA do not jeopardise the SDP either by virtue of para 13(3ZA) to Sch 2 of IS Regs. Only when CA is being paid, eg weekly/4 weekly, does the SDP stop.
its the temptation of doing nothing that has prompted me to start this thread. let officers continue with non payment of ca and payment of sdp until they realise their error given that i have already contacted them but what i dont want is a attempt at overpayment recovery as i can imagine a tribunal trying their best to place the emphasis on me and the client continuing to notfy given that i should obviously be fully aware of what should be happening.
in any case I have written to the carers allowance unit stating my position so i at least now have that on record as well as a telephone contact and have recorded details of my conversation with the local bdc. given both clients health situations i just dont want to end up with appeals and overpayments as they could really do without that.
First, she should not have been sent a new claim form but a brief enquiry form (see R(G) 1/03 for guidance on this matter). Second, there is no interuption of IS until Carers Allowance actually comes into payment, effective from the date that the payment relates to.
as a matter of interest i got a fax today from carers after my letter stating that after 3 months of the initial ca claim they need a full new claim form if a overlapping benefit then ceases to bring the carers allowance into payment. i will look at your reference and point this out to them.
thanks
First, she should not have been sent a new claim form but a brief enquiry form (see R(G) 1/03 for guidance on this matter). Second, there is no interuption of IS until Carers Allowance actually comes into payment, effective from the date that the payment relates to.[/quote
would you be of the opinion then that if a client failed to notify carers allowance and income support continued to pay two sdp’s there would be no pverpayment?
There can only be an overpayment (misrepresentation aside) of Income Support if the claimant failed to disclose to the IS office something that he was under an express obligation to disclose or under an implied obligation which he ought to have realised he should have disclosed and as a consequence of that failure he was paid benefit which he would not have been paid but for the failure. So you would have to look at the terms of the IS awarding decision letter. In short, the answer to your question is, I doubt it.
First, she should not have been sent a new claim form but a brief enquiry form (see R(G) 1/03 for guidance on this matter). Second, there is no interuption of IS until Carers Allowance actually comes into payment, effective from the date that the payment relates to.
i sent the decision you posted and my opinion that the benefit should just start or that written confirmation that there have been no changes should be enough.
the reply i got was that the policy you stated was the case up until recently but they are now insisting on a full claim form. i have asked for their legal basis for doing this and my argument has been passed to another section within the unit.
for what its worth the guy responding to my contacts has basically agreed with me that its a waste of everyones time doing a new form so i will wait on their response and update on here.
Dontcha just love “policy” and “procedure”? Who needs law?.....
This is ridiculous. A claim form is a “form of claim” (the exact phrase used in the Claims and Payments Regs) and you cannot and should not need to, claim something you are already entitled to. My main worry would be someone who informed them more than three months after the other benefit stopped and not getting full arrears paid because some bright spark logged it onto the system as a new claim.
here is the reply to my query:
“Your query to Business Change has been passed to the Checking and Assurance Team to deal with.
You are right about Commissioner’s decision R(G) 1/03. That decision ruled that we were wrong to give the SUP 1 decision in this type of case. The Commissioner ruled that we should deal with these cases under section 8 of the Social Security Act 1998 which refers to decisions by the Secretary of State. We were previously dealing with these cases under section 10 of the 1998 Act which refers to superseding earlier decisions. It does not refer to the procedures to be followed in relation to the issue of the claim form.
The legislation you need is the Social Security (Claims and Payments) Regulations 1987. Regulation 32(1A) refers. This regulation states that:-
“Every beneficiary and every person by whom, or on whose behalf, sums by way of benefit are receivable shall furnish in such manner and at such times as the Secretary of State may determine such information or evidence as the Secretary of State may require in connection with payment of the benefit claimed or awarded.”
Basically, in view of the length of time since the last decision, it is reasonable in such a case for the Secretary of State to ask for confirmation in the form of a claim form that the entitlement conditions remain satisfied.”
just as a update on this the carers allowance unit are still insiting on the claim form being completed.
I have quoted decision R(IS) 9/06 where it seems the only limitation on the information the sos request is that it must potentially affect entitlement. i have pointed out i can see no reason why there is any doubt to entitlement and why this form is needed.
if anyone else has any other relevant points i can raise then i would be grateful.