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UC or IS?
Client is single parent with 3 children aged 3, 5 and 15 years. Now not in work and about to claim benefits. Getting Child Tax Credit of £107 a week. She has been advised that she will need to claim UC.
Am I correct in thinking that if she claims Income Support before she claims UC then she will not be able to claim UC until the IS claim has been resolved. Or is it that she simply will not be allowed to Income Support; I suspect the latter is the case.
Oh dear, so much to learn, so little time.
Thank you in anticipation.
Patrick
You might want to look at this Welfare Rights Bulletin article by my colleague Dan on UC gateway conditions Patrick.
The universal credit gateway: early experiences
As she has child under 5, she has potential entitlement to income support and this should preclude UC claim.
I think where you are Patrick couples and children are included in UC gateway conditions (see the bit under ‘couples an parents’ in the article paul refers to) so she will have to claim UC unless there is any disability in the family. So she will not be able to claim IS.
It is of course the simplicity of UC that is its major appeal….
I think where you are Patrick couples and children are included in UC gateway conditions (see the bit under ‘couples an parents’ in the article paul refers to) so she will have to claim UC unless there is any disability in the family. So she will not be able to claim IS.
Thank you Daphne and Paul. I read the article of which you speak with interest. However, and with particular reference to the following:
“The DWP announced in February 2015 that all 96 areas which began accepting UC claims prior before the end of 2014 would accept claims from claimants with children (other than those whose children are disabled, in local authority care or are themselves foster parents or adopters)”.
I’m not sure that the phrase “would accept claims from claimants” means MUST accept claims and deny Income Support claims. Is that what it means? Or does it mean can accept UC claims but don’t need to accept UC claims and IS claims are okay too?
Thank you (My head hurts)
Patrick
It means it must be a UC claim. If you meet the gateway conditions you have no choice.
It means it must be a UC claim. If you meet the gateway conditions you have no choice.
That’s what I thought, but no harm in asking.
Thank you.
Patrick.
I was about to say:
The commencement order not only brings UC into existence in the specified areas for the specified client group from the specified date - it abolishes Income Support for the same people at the same time. So you don’t have a choice, only UC exists now if you are in gateway scope.
But then I checked, and it doesn’t. Same goes for HB. JSA(ib) is abolished, yes, but not IS and not HB.
The 2014 Transitional Regs mean that you cannot make a claim for HB or IS once you stray into the UC lobster pot, but the way I read it if you are eligible for both UC and IS in an area where the conditions overlap, as they seem to in pre-2015 areas, you would appear to have a choice whether to enter the lobster pot in the first place.
Am I reading this right?
As an aside, remember the coalition’s silly “one in, one out” gimmick for statutory instruments? I was reminded of that while ploughing through almost incomprehensible mountain of commencement orders and associated provisions associated with UC roll-out. There must be about 50 SIs so far governing UC for under 100,000 claimants. Nice to see all that red tape being swept away.
I take it back. I think you’re right HBAnorak. In the case of IS you can meet the gateway conditions and therefore claim UC but you are not precluded from claiming IS instead if you so choose. But, like you say, you don’t have the choice with ESA or JSA.
“Never in the history of our island race has so much secondary legislation been written for the benefit of so few”
They should never have repealed the 1351 Statute of Labourers.
I take it back. I think you’re right HBAnorak. In the case of IS you can meet the gateway conditions and therefore claim UC but you are not precluded from claiming IS instead if you so choose. But, like you say, you don’t have the choice with ESA or JSA.
ESA too? I thought that it was outside of the gateway conditions unless you were already an existing UC claimant
The commencement order certainly abolishes ESA(ir) for those eligible for UC, but so far this only has any practical effect in the tiny “digital service” area.
I think.
With apologies to any unsung heroes I haven’t mentioned, I am aware of only one person who has made the effort to keep on top of the commencement orders and amendments as and when they appear, and that is Jon Blackwell. I imagine the LGBP nerve centre as some Bond villain’s cavern with a huge electronic map table.
If you are there Jon, maybe you can confirm we are taking this thread in the right direction?
Billy - yes ESA is outside gateway conditions except in digital area - what I meant was that, if you are in the digital area you couldn’t have a choice between ESA or UC in the way that you could in the IS/UC situation above. Not sure I’ve explained myself very well.
Hopefully Jon will answer but in the meantime there are links to his very useful maps in this thread (post 12) and further advice - http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/8133/
The commencement order certainly abolishes ESA(ir) for those eligible for UC, but so far this only has any practical effect in the tiny “digital service” area.
I think.
And people who fall sick whilst already on UC.
With apologies to any unsung heroes I haven’t mentioned, I am aware of only one person who has made the effort to keep on top of the commencement orders and amendments as and when they appear, and that is Jon Blackwell. I imagine the LGBP nerve centre as some Bond villain’s cavern with a huge electronic map table.
Uncannily accurate.
If you are there Jon, maybe you can confirm we are taking this thread in the right direction?
Jon’s away for a few days. But tentatively, WRA 2012 s33(1)(c) provides for the abolition of income support. Unlike 33(1)(a) and (b), the equivalent provisions for JSA(IB) and ESA(IR), this doesn’t appear to have been commenced anywhere. UC Transitional Provisions regs subpara 5(1)(a) just disallows claiming IS *during* a period of entitlement to UC.
Tim
OK, two people! Sorry about that.
Glad we seem to be following it roughly correctly
Thank you everyone.
The advice I gave to the person in question was to telephone the National Claim’s line and to insist on making a claim to IS. Should she encounter any problems to get back to us.
Again thank you all, and, as usual, thank goodness for “Rightsnet”: what would I do without it?
Patrick