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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Decision making and appeals  →  Thread

When is fraud fraud?

MaggieB
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Dorchester CAB

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Total Posts: 271

Joined: 11 October 2010

Large IS overpayment due to alleged non declaration of pension income.  Client interviewed under caution but was not charged and no administrative penalty accepted. This was in 2010. Client repaid some of o/p between 2010 and 2013 when he filed for bankruptcy and after discharge DWP started recovery on the basis it was fraud (they also recovered during the bankruptcy period but that’s another matter..) They have told client that he was not prosecuted because of a “technical error” made by LA.
Is there a specific definition of what counts as fraud for the purposes or either continued recovery after bankruptcy or for recovering additional amount?

MMiah
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Benefits Department, Crystal Law Solicitors, Leicester

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Joined: 11 February 2015

Hi Maggie

Very interesting question. 

Unfortunately, I don’t know the specific answer to your query.  I have numerous DWP and HB bulletins but they all say stuff like only non-fraud overpayments can be included in DRO and Bankruptcy.

I have located an earlier rightsnet thread, with citation to caselaw, which may shed some light on it:

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/5430/#22429

Unfortunately, I am pressed for time to dig a little deeper.

A noteworthy point is that few years ago I recall reading that you can contact the relevant benefit agency and seek disclosure of the information on their systems on what they deemed to be a “fraudulent overpayment” for the purposes of bankruptcy. 

Any other rightsnetters including those from DWP/LA able to shed some light on this post. 

JFSelby
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Benefit caseworker (SDAIN project) - Selby CAB, North Yorkshire

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I have had a few clients go bankrupt with some fraud debt in the background those debts remain following the bankruptcy but from memory the clients Official receiver was aware they were fraudulant and tended to keep watch on the client

It may be worth asking your client if they had a Backruptcy restiction order placed on them or depending when the bankruptcy was how long they remained with the OR

One would assume the client should have letters if there was fraud or possible went and had a warning at local JC+ etc

It is the case that the DWP have tried to recover debt post Bankruptcy and post DRO which at a CAB we would challenge ( and go via specialist support)

The link shown on the previous post leads to that I believe

I would contact the official receiver that dealt with the bankruptcy for a further opinion on what was included

nevip
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Welfare rights adviser - Sefton Council, Liverpool

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Joined: 16 June 2010

At the heart of any definition of fraud is an intention to deceive and that must be proved by the person who alleges it.  And, an act can still be fraud even if the person committing the act does not profit personally from that act.  My understanding is that a person is still liable for a debt due to fraud when the bankruptcy is discharged.