Forum Home → Discussion → Decision making and appeals → Thread
....no such thing as a free lunch for the Tribunal Judiciary
Amusing UT decisions here:
http://www.osscsc.gov.uk/Aspx/view.aspx?id=4527
Judge Wikeley describes the decision as a “car crash” and taken together with the second case it decided a “mini motorway pile-up”. The final paragraph deals with allegation from claimant that Presenting Officer went to buy the lunch for the Tribunal members whilst they deliberated….
40. Second, the Appellant states (not by way of complaint, but simply as an assertion of fact as though it were entirely normal) that at the end of her hearing (i.e. approx 13.45) “I was then asked to leave the room while they discussed my mother’s case and the DWP fraud officer went to buy the panel some lunch” [964]. Again, I do not need to investigate that matter. There is no suggestion that the DWP fraud officer actually paid for the panel’s lunch, as opposed to simply buying it as their agent. However, appearances are important and if there is any truth in the assertion it was also obviously inappropriate.’
Fortunately the UT was able to find some other errors of law (!) and so did not have to pronounce on this point further than this. I think though that whether or not buying the panel lunch was an error of law all depends on what is bought for the lunch….. I mean a standard old sarnie is one thing but what if it was the full Pret a Manger deal? I think Tribunals might work much better if as well as making submissions we could make the tea for the Tribunal. Would give so much more of a homely atmosphere no? I mean doesn’t rule 2 say the proceedings should be informal? Anyone for a cuppa?
I can just see you asking, “Shall I be mother?”
Priceless!
I do recall repping a client at a DLA hearing, many moons ago, just before Christmas where the panel had clearly been on the sherry. You could just feel the bonhomie shining from them and the Chair (as it was in those days) was sporting a novelty bow tie that rotated when he pressed a button. Oddly enough the appeal succeeded….
Oh where to begin!!!
Tribunal chairs with glass eye that falls out and roll towards you during the hearing. I’ve mentioned that before.
Medical professional woken by my hammering the palm of my hand onto the table.
Medical professional who fell out of the chair having nodded off.
Presenting officer who calmly told a tribunal there’s no such thing as 24 hour care! Now walks around with a neck brace and crutches having fallen down the stairs at his DWP office one too many times.
Presenting officer who spent many days out of the office looking for appeals where they could make a nuisance of themselves but weren’t actually expected to attend so had to “borrow” a set of papers.
PO regularly to be found doing no presenting cos only there for 1 case but in meantime had a crossword to do for a couple of hours!
PO who always found a way to be at a venue Friday afternoon for an early finish (after the crossword had been completed obviously).
PO completing said crossword with assistance from the disability qualified tribunal member!
Drunk PO staggering and tripping through the waiting area in front of claimants and reps.
Drunk PO entering tribunal room trying to argue appellant couldn’t qualify for DLA as alcohol abuse wasn’t an illness.
Medical professional who finished a home-visit, at which I was in attendance, and was then mortally offended when I declined his offer of a lift to the tribunal venue!!!
Judge who offered my client a glass of water. Served it to my client himself and then proceeded to wash his hands using a wet wipe.
Chair who decided that after my client swung a punch at him the best response was to swing right back. Client had a learning disability and the tribunal inevitably found he needed no restraint.
Disability qualified tribunal member who actually voiced what we all think they think. “Well if I can get here and do this why should I believe you can’t do these activities?”
Chair who waited until appellant left room but failed to wait until the door shut. “I didn’t think much of what they were wearing!”.
It has been a long and entertaining career 😊
Wow….Mike…you should write a book. Some real crackers there…
Re the last one- I did a variant on that once. Female judge was wearing the most beautiful amber pendant, which client and I both fell in love with. At the end of the hearing, when she reached the ‘is there anything else you’d like to tell us?’ point, we simultaneously complimented her on the pendant and asked her where it came from. Following a fairly lengthy ‘girly’ jewellery talk she announced the appeal had succeeded….
No book, but…
... I forgot the tribunal venue that was a community centre and also housed a kids club. Tribunals repeatedly interrupted by two or more kids bursting in and chasing around the tables and out again hotly pursued by parents or guardians. Will never forget the day a three year old came to a grinding halt next to the Chair; stared at me, the appellant and the presenting officer… and decided to hold the Chairs hand silently for the next 90 minutes. The Chair never said a word.
At decision time I absolutely could not resist asking the Chair whether the views of the “expert witness” had been fully taken into account. She had been quietly escorted out at the end of the hearing to the amusement of all concerned. It was observed by said chair that they were the best behaved panel member they had ever sat with as they clearly understood their role as being to listen to the case; ask no questions and then agree with the judge.
To the mortification of all involved the little girl then came back in; looked at the medical professional and said “Are you my Daddy?”.
Have never seen a parent remove their child from a room so fast 😊
Having given us the outcome we hoped for the Chair looked at the remaining group and quietly said “I believe we run Child Support appeals here on a Thursday!”.
Awww….that’s a really sweet story…bet there wasn’t a dry eye in the house!
I’m not sure the medical professional saw it as especially sweet. They were horrified at both the child and the hilarious, biting response of the Chair. Many years later I learned they had been married several times and had fathered children that didn’t belong to those marriages.
Anyway, did I mention the tribunal day were the clerk, myself and presenting officer had to dig the venue out because it was snowed in? Clerk went to borrow a shovel from Sainsburys. They made him buy one. TS in Liverpool threatened to not meet the cost.
Did you ever attend a hearing in a shoe-box in middle of ‘t road by any chance??
Love the shovel story….
Did you ever attend a hearing in a shoe-box in middle of ‘t road by any chance??
Love the shovel story….
You must mean the Civil Justice Centre in Manchester? Several shoe boxes piled high. Although technically I am informed it’s a filing cabinet.
Actually the shovel story relates to the old temporary Bolton venue, which was a portakabin next to the fish market. A truly joyous venue. The sense you could fall through the floor at any point. Tribunal chair travelled across the Pennines in a four wheel drive as the scheduled chair was snowed in south of Manchester (ah, the perils of the stockbroker belt!). Chair amused all concerned by talking about “mamby pamby southerners” as he’d dug himself out that morning.
‘Presenting officer who calmly told a tribunal there’s no such thing as 24 hour care! Now walks around with a neck brace and crutches having fallen down the stairs at his DWP office one too many times.’ Did he fall or was he pushed? (no need to incriminate yourself Mike).
CDLA/5547/2014 and CDLA/5548/2014 now in caselaw - entertaining writing on a friday afternoon…
Having now read them again I must say they describe a not uncommon experience.
Recently had the DQTM going into the POs room at Manchester to help him with the crossword! Several appellants, inlcuding the one I was representing, were unimpressed with that. Other appellants were aware of exactly who this person was as they were coming to hearing which had been previously adjourned.
Have also bumped into a Judge and PO having a pre-hearing coffee together in Costa Coffee just up from the Civil Justice Centre. Perfectly acceptable if only one of them going to the venue subsequently or in different rooms. Sure enough, both headed to the venue and both in same room. Fortunately, not mine.