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PIP Descriptors again!
What frequency or for how long does an applicant have to satisfy the descriptor before it is awarded. In the DLA Regs words like ‘frequent attention’ or ‘significant portion’ were used but is there anything in the PIP Regs themselves that mention periods. Therefore eg if an applicant needs help from another regards bladder/bowel problems, the very fact the applicant needs such help whether it be weekly or two weekly, is this enough to satisfy the descriptor. I know the DWP have their own guidelines but they are what is says on the tin ie mere guidelines and have no statutory/regulatory power. Any guidance would be appreciated.
There is the so-called “50% rule”, if this answers your question?
There is the so-called “50% rule”, if this answers your question?
Which I think breaks down as having difficulty completing an activity at least once on 183 days of the year (the PIP Assessment Guide refers to difficulty “at some stage of the day on more than 50% of the days in the 12 month period”). Only guidance but I think helpful as it lowers the bar - if you need the toilet 10 times a day it seems you can still score if you need help going just one of those times.
But if help is only needed once per week/fortnight with toileting I can’t see how your client is going to meet the threshold.
Dear Billy - By your reckoning then if someone needs help to go to the toilet one day out of 183 then they should have the descriptor awarded!
Then there’s the matter of scoring more than one descriptor for less than half the time but when all are added together is for more of the time.
i.e. 2days 4f
2days 4g
scores 8points
Reg7(c) where no descriptor is satisfied on over 50% of the days of the required period but two or more descriptors (other than a descriptor which scores 0 points) are satisfied for periods which, when added together, amount to over 50% of the days of the required period–
(i)the descriptor which is satisfied for the greater or greatest proportion of days of the required period; or,
(ii)where both or all descriptors are satisfied for the same proportion, the descriptor which scores the higher or highest number of points.
As I mentioned in post 17 here
Edit: John’s making a slightly different point.
[ Edited: 8 Jun 2015 at 01:25 pm by Tom H ]Dear Billy - By your reckoning then if someone needs help to go to the toilet one day out of 183 then they should have the descriptor awarded![/quote
Well, if they only needed to go to the toilet once every 183 days maybe.
Once per day on 183 days if that needs clarifying.
As I mentioned in post 17 here
Edit: John’s making a slightly different point.
Only that it is not straight forward - I suspect there’s a lot of thinking PIP is ‘...the same as DLA but different.’
Where ESA typically has progressing difficulty with an activity PIP has both progressing and different difficulties.
The analysis of a person’s disabilities and its effects has become a lot more difficult.
Only that it is not straight forward - I suspect there’s a lot of thinking PIP is ‘...the same as DLA but different.’
Where ESA typically has progressing difficulty with an activity PIP has both progressing and different difficulties.
The analysis of a person’s disabilities and its effects has become a lot more difficult.
To be fair I mentioned later in that thread that it was obviously possible to score more than one descriptor each for more than 5o% of the time. Clearly, that’s going to make the calculating much more difficult. But my point was principally about activity 2. On reflection you are making the same point John albeit re a different activity.
Only that it is not straight forward - I suspect there’s a lot of thinking PIP is ‘...the same as DLA but different.’
Where ESA typically has progressing difficulty with an activity PIP has both progressing and different difficulties.
The analysis of a person’s disabilities and its effects has become a lot more difficult.
To be fair I mentioned later in that thread that it was obviously possible to score more than one descriptor each for more than 5o% of the time. Clearly, that’s going to make the calculating much more difficult. But my point was principally about activity 2. On reflection you are making the same point John albeit re a different activity.
Yes.
Then there’s the matter of scoring more than one descriptor for less than half the time but when all are added together is for more of the time.
i.e. 2days 4f
2days 4gscores 8points
Looking again at your above example John, I think the score would be 4pts not 8pts on the basis that on the 2 days the claimant satisfies 4g she’d also satisfy 4f but not vice versa. Consequently, she’d satisfy 4f on 4 days and, therefore, Reg 7(1)(a) would apply giving her 4 points for 4f. The same couldn’t be said about Mobility descriptors 2(d) and 2(e) in my example in the other thread.
Edit: Reg 7(1)(b) suggests that you can score for, eg, 4f and 4g on the same day, ie how else could more than one descriptor as per Reg 7(1)(b) each apply for more than 50% of the time? The descriptors in activity 4 are not, therefore, mutually exclusive, whereas in activity 2 they would appear to be so due to the wording of the descriptors themselves.
[ Edited: 8 Jun 2015 at 04:44 pm by Tom H ]I agree.
Many thanks for the input.