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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Housing costs  →  Thread

Recovery of overpaid HB from landlord when tenant vacates

Don Curtis
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Customer support team manager - The Guinness Partnership

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Joined: 16 June 2010

Hi – any views on this issue please?

Our tenant moves permanently into a nursing home but doesn’t tell us until a few weeks later.

In the meantime HB continues to be paid direct to us.

Eventually, LA decides that HB has been overpaid from 4 weeks after tenant’s decision (allowing tnt the notice period). They are probably correct. They then ask us to repay.

I argue that OP is caused by tenant’s failure to disclose and therefore we are protected by 101(2)(b) – makes the tenant the target for recovery.

LA argue that because 101(2)(a) reads ‘subject to para 1’ this always engages 101(1)(bb) and effectively means that in any direct payment case where a tenant vacates then landlord is target.

P 489 of 23rd Findlay seems to back this up:

‘However, this general rule [that recovery can be made from such other person as well as the person to whom it was paid] will not apply if reg 101(1) applies.’

My view is that 101(1) gives a specific protection to the LL but that 101(2)(b) gives further protection where the LL is ‘blameless’.

But I’m struggling to express this in coherent terms.

Any assistance welcome.

(BTW it is actually the pension age regs that are applying in this case but they read the same as the regular ones on this topic - I think!)

Kevin D
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Independent HB/CTB administrator, consultant & trainer (Essex)

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This response assumes the o/p has not been caused by an error on the part of the LA/DWP et al.

The LA’s reference to “...subject to para 1…” is notably incomplete (selectively so?). 

HB(PC)R 82(2)(a) actually says “...subject to paragraph (1) and where sub-paragraph (b) or (c) does not apply, the overpayment is recoverable from the claimant as well as the person to whom the payment was made, if different;”  {bold is my emphasis}.

Sub-para (b) says:

“in a case where an overpayment arose in consequence of a misrepresentation of or a failure to disclose a material fact (in either case, whether fraudulently or otherwise) by or on behalf of the claimant, or by or on behalf of any person to whom the payment was made, the overpayment is only recoverable from any person who misrepresented or failed to disclose that material fact instead of, if different, the person to whom the payment was made;”.

Based on the info given, the o/p arose in consequence of a failure to disclose a material fact.  That means sub-para (b) applies.  Sub-para (a) only applies if (b) doesn’t so (a) is dispatched.

The LA may then argue the LL also failed to disclose.  However, it isn’t possible to disclose something that isn’t known.  Taking a leaf from Mr Stainsby, it may be worth searching the Rightsnet forums for posts on “constructive knowledge”.

In my view, para (1) of HB(PC)R 82 isn’t engaged because para (2) has directed that the “target” is “...only recoverable from any person who failed to disclose…”.  The LL could not disclose because there was no knowledge of the material fact.  That only leaves the clmt.

I would also argue that reliance on 82(1) in isolation would render 82(2)(b) to be of no effect and, therefore, 82(2)(b) must “trump” para (1).

As an aside, in order to fall within para 1, ALL of the sub-paras must be cumulatively satisfied for it to apply.

Don Curtis
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Customer support team manager - The Guinness Partnership

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Thanks Kevin - I was stumbling to the same conclusion but not sure when I would have got there.

Kevin D
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Independent HB/CTB administrator, consultant & trainer (Essex)

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*bump*

Purely by chance, I have stumbled upon a decision by the Upper Tribunal on what appears to be a made-to-measure fit for this scenario.  In CH/2630/2010, the UTJ concludes that if HBR 101(2)(b) is engaged, para (1) doesn’t necessarily need to be satisfied.

Somewhat spookily, the LA made arguments which appear rather similar to your case.  The UTD is attached to this post.

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Stainsby
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Welfare rights adviser - Plumstead Community Law Centre

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I am surprised that the case was not thrown out much earlier in CH/2630/2010 as the LA had clearly not made a proper recoverability decision as was required following the decision of the Tribunal of Commissioners in R(H)6/06

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Kevin D
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Just like buses….

CH/1876/2010 follows the approach taken in CH/2630/2010 and although citing an earler version of HBR 101, CH/2064/2009 also confirms that what is NOW HBR 101(2)(b) overrides HBR 101(1).

On the matter of possible oversights, there is arguably one such occurrence in CH/2064/2009 @ para 19 - did the Judge overlook HBR 80?  Small point and doesn’t affect the main issue.

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