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No PIP2
Hello,
I have a PIP appeal this morning and there is no copy of any PIP2 in the bundle; nor does it appear anywhere on the schedule of papers. My client has M/H issues and cannot remember a PIP2 being done, but he accepts that he might be wrong. Is it possible for a PIP claim to progress without a PIP2 being completed do you know?
Thank you as always.
Patrick.
Given that it’s possible for an ESA claim to proceed in the absence of an ESA50, I’d say yes. The dept’s approach to ESA claims for people with mental health problems is to not terminate the award for failure to return an ESA50 and base the decision on the ESA85. I hadn’t heard of anything similar happening with PIP, but it could be the same.
I don’t know about the legal position, but I was at an ESA appeal the other day when the subject came up. This man had phoned for a PIP claim pack about a year ago, but had promptly ripped it up when he got it. He has now been invited to attend an assessment, which seemed to be a good thing (despite the delay not being ideal, of course). He was as surprised as I was.
Hello,
I have a PIP appeal this morning and there is no copy of any PIP2 in the bundle; nor does it appear anywhere on the schedule of papers. My client has M/H issues and cannot remember a PIP2 being done, but he accepts that he might be wrong. Is it possible for a PIP claim to progress without a PIP2 being completed do you know?
Thank you as always.
Patrick.
Yes, it is; I needed to remind PIP of that fact not long ago.
The guidance posted here http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/7572/ says that:
6. Claimants who fail to return the PIP2 within a calendar month but who have indicated they need ‘Additional Support’ will have an assessment without having completed a PIP2.
I’m guessing that has what has happened to your client.
Those identified as needing additional support include those with some mental health conditions, including (from what I can work out) conditions that have led to claimant being sectioned
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
“Rightsnet” people; always the people to ask.
Patrick
On the subject of additional support needs… Part of a recent FOI request response says:
“During the implementation and national roll of Personal Independence Payment the
Department has put in place adjustments to its processes based on the experiences of staff.
Applying the additional support marker to individuals is a case in point. Based on lessons
learned, the telephony script that our Claim Telephone Agents used was adjusted to focus on
claimants who are expected to have difficulty in completing our forms and not unnecessarily
capturing claimants who do not require support. Following this, further changes were made to
ensure those claimants who have existing support mechanisms in place such as support
workers, families or friends etc., and feel they can rely on this to help, will no longer be marked
as requiring additional support from the Department. We have made changes to bring it in line
with the original policy intent and the initial assumptions. The process continues to allow
telephony agents to mark a case accordingly if they identify potential vulnerability during the
call.”
What is not clear to me is what additional support is actually available other than arranging an assessment when the PIP2 is not returned? Has anybody seen any examples of support being provided by the DWP to claimants requiring additional support?
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/242900/response/604275/attach/2/wdtk 5268 reply.pdf
None whatsoever! Quite the opposite!
EG requiring vulnerable claimants to travel to distant locations for assessment.
Rule 24(4)(b) of the TP (FtT) (SEC) Rules means that all evidence available to the DM should be available to the FtT and disclosed to the claimant or representative. Here is the link to the cited rule:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/386566/social-entitlement-chamber-tribunal-procedure-rules.pdf
Also DMG para 06286 reads:
06286 All evidence
1.
relevant to the appeal and
2.
available to the DM
should be available to the tribunal and disclosed to the appellant or representative1. (see DMG Chapter 01).
Note: Advice on the law, such as guidance on an individual case, is not evidence and should not be disclosed to the appellant, representative or tribunal. See DMG Chapter 01 for further details.
1 R(S) 1/58
The link to above is:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/345739/dmgch06.pdf
I hope the above is useful to you!
Rule 24(4)(b) of the TP (FtT) (SEC) Rules means that all evidence available to the DM should be available to the FtT and disclosed to the claimant or representative. Here is the link to the cited rule:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/386566/social-entitlement-chamber-tribunal-procedure-rules.pdf
Also DMG para 06286 reads:06286 All evidence
1.
relevant to the appeal and
2.
available to the DM
should be available to the tribunal and disclosed to the appellant or representative1. (see DMG Chapter 01).
Note: Advice on the law, such as guidance on an individual case, is not evidence and should not be disclosed to the appellant, representative or tribunal. See DMG Chapter 01 for further details.
1 R(S) 1/58The link to above is:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/345739/dmgch06.pdfI hope the above is useful to you!
All okay everyone. In this case the PIP2 was not returned by the claimant and, for the proper reasons, the case was determined without the PIP2. This was discussed at the start of the hearing and the judge opined:
“All that the appellant had not been able to do was to express their needs and problems in writing. Today, however, that will be rectified as it is an opportunity for him to tell all us about them.”
Appeal allowed and Enhanced rate of both components, or as they are often referred to, “double top” awarded.
Thank you all.
Patrick.
..Enhanced rate of both components, or as they are often referred to, “double top” awarded..
Hit the SDP and it’s “One Hundred and Eighty!”
..Enhanced rate of both components, or as they are often referred to, “double top” awarded..
Hit the SDP and it’s “One Hundred and Eighty!”
Already in hand, and although client has 2 house mates sharing the home, he can rely on good old Reg3(2)(c) or its modern day equivalent as they “jointly occupy” the dwelling and are joint tenants from when they moved in. Whoops, it does still apply these days doesn’t it, or has it been complicated by something else with regard to Income Based ESA?
Thank you.
Patrick
Nice one Patrick, and love the ‘double tops’- an expression we shall be using from now on.
Nice one Patrick, and love the ‘double tops’- an expression we shall be using from now on.
Sadly I am not able to claim much credit for double top. It was a quote from, believe it or not, a DWP Presenting Officer after one of the early DATs at which I represented in the 90s. It is a good ‘n’ though and it made me smile. It’s been in regular use in the Manchester area since; but I’m not sure if it spread to other areas?
Thank you.
Patrick.
[ Edited: 27 Feb 2015 at 09:02 am by Patrick Joseph Hill ]Made me smile. Can I coin “double eight”, ie standard rate mob and daily living.
Edit:
..Whoops, it does still apply these days doesn’t it, or has it been complicated by something else with regard to Income Based ESA?
Patrick
It’s Reg 71(4) & (5) ESA Regs 2008.
[ Edited: 27 Feb 2015 at 09:50 am by Tom H ]Client just got award notice with £10,500.14 backdate; this for PIP only and does not include SDP yet to be assessed. This does reflect the length of time this has taken to resolve.
Thank you.
Patrick