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Another permanent residency query…IS, JSA & HB!
Re: 5 x p60’s
I haven’t heard that before. A lot depends on how much work done, whether genuine and effective and whether the definition of worker is satisfied throughout in accordance with the EEA Regs for the entire 5 years.
If the above is satisfied then 5x p60’s would surely suffice. If not, I anticipate a struggle.
I read in CPAG (P1537) that DM guidance says someone who has earned the primary NI threshold for three months is automatically a worker. Does it mean that someone who meets that criteria will have worker status for the whole financial year?
At the bottom of P844 it says that if you earn between the lower earnings limit and the primary threshold you should be treated as if you had paid Class 1 NI contributions on those earnings. If that applied to my client would that help him prove worker status?
If 3 months of earning at the primary threshold achieves worker status, could you argue that 6 months earning half the primary threshold achieves the same thing? I know this wouldn’t lead to payment of NI, but I’m clutching at straws here :)
I’ve read a few times that undeclared work can help someone attain worker status, but how do people usually prove that they have done undeclared work? Do they have to show bank statements with deposits of cash going into their account regularly?
I’m already resigned to the fact that I’ll have to trawl through the client’s payslips to see if they bear any resembalnce to his NI contributions for those years. P1536 mentions some caselaw which refers to people who did very small amounts of work and were deemed to have gained worker status. Are these cases likely to be much use to my client’s cause or will it come down to the combination of all his circumstances?
I read in CPAG (P1537) that DM guidance says someone who has earned the primary NI threshold for three months is automatically a worker. Does it mean that someone who meets that criteria will have worker status for the whole financial year?
No, the next section makes it clear that “You only cease to be a worker when the employment relationship ends…If you have ceased to be a worker, you may retain your worker status in certain circumstances (see below)”.
At the bottom of P844 it says that if you earn between the lower earnings limit and the primary threshold you should be treated as if you had paid Class 1 NI contributions on those earnings. If that applied to my client would that help him prove worker status?
If 3 months of earning at the primary threshold achieves worker status, could you argue that 6 months earning half the primary threshold achieves the same thing? I know this wouldn’t lead to payment of NI, but I’m clutching at straws here :)
I’ve read a few times that undeclared work can help someone attain worker status, but how do people usually prove that they have done undeclared work? Do they have to show bank statements with deposits of cash going into their account regularly?
I’m already resigned to the fact that I’ll have to trawl through the client’s payslips to see if they bear any resembalnce to his NI contributions for those years. P1536 mentions some caselaw which refers to people who did very small amounts of work and were deemed to have gained worker status. Are these cases likely to be much use to my client’s cause or will it come down to the combination of all his circumstances?
In terms of undeclared work, it’s very much a question of evidence and facts on that particular case, in my experience. DM’s often won’t accept whereas taking to FtT means your client has the chance to argue their case and is often accepted. I’ve had a client who had a very sporadic work record, some legal with NIC’s paid, other periods when he was doing cash-in-hand. This covered a period of almost 5 years, and FtT accepted he had worker status throughout, and at the time we intervened, could retain worker status as he was temporarily unable to work and thus entitled to ESA.
Is there a document or card that can be issued to confirm that someone has a permanent right to reside? I was just thinking that if I do manage to convince the DWP that my client has a permanant right to reside, would I be able to get something in writing confirming his right to reside so that any future problems can be sorted out much more quickly?
In future your permanent right to reside decision notice from DWP should suffice as proof.
With regards your question about the document, I believe there is a document/card you can apply for with a fee. I am sorry I don’t know the exact form name, I have never had to do one. My colleague in the immigration department told me. Unfortunately she is not in today.
I don’t think you have to wait for the DWP to make a decision first. You can fill the form and if successful you can use as proof of permanent rtr for the DWP.
Sorry can’t be more helpful this time, it was a strategy I was thinking of using several months ago but didn’t need to in the end.
I believe there is a document/card you can apply for with a fee.
are you thinking of this? https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-certificate
It costs £55
Just to clarify:
Document certifying permanent residence for EEA nationals is Form EEA3
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/314858/EEA_3_Permanent_Residence_06-14.pdf
Permanent residence card for non-EEA nationals is Form EEA4
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/327075/EEA_4_Permanent_Residence_06-14.pdf
Thanks Brian
Out of curiosity has anyone filled an ESA3 and got a certificate?
I have never seen one.