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Advice needed for Irish citizen wanting to claim benefits (UC and potentially PIP) in the UK.
Hi all.
I am working with an Irish woman who has recently fled from Ireland due to DVA late last year.
She was classed as homeless but has now been accommodated in a supported housing accommodation very recently.
However, the housing support workers have claimed she has no recourse to funds here in the UK due to being in receipt of Irish state benefits and therefore she must return back to Ireland. Is this correct?
The woman fled without her bank card and had no access to her Irish bank account since being in the UK. (we have since supported her in opening a UK bank account).
My understanding was that both Irish and British citizens can access the social security systems of either states within the CTA.
Would this woman need to close her claim to Irish benefits in order to claim UK benefits, and if so, does this really warrant a return to Ireland, in order to do so?
[ Edited: 4 Mar 2024 at 04:16 pm by NaSa ]irish citizens do indeed come under the CTA - there shouldnt be any restriction on her claiming benefits, but of course she will need to access her bank account to get the money paid to her.
irish citizens do indeed come under the CTA - there shouldnt be any restriction on her claiming benefits, but of course she will need to access her bank account to get the money paid to her.
Thank you Prisca for confirming!
I should have prefaced - we have since supported her in opening a UK bank account.
Many thanks
UC shouldn’t be a problem as she is already habitually resident and has a right to reside in the Common Travel Area, which is what UC Reg 9 requires.
PIP is more difficult. If she has no history of UK residence she will be outside the scope of the withdrawal agreement as it applies to EU co-ordination rules, which is both good news and bad news:
- it means Ireland won’t be the competent state for PIP(dl), but
- it also means she wont be able to by-pass the past presence test
UC shouldn’t be a problem as she is already habitually resident and has a right to reside in the Common Travel Area, which is what UC Reg 9 requires.
PIP is more difficult. If she has no history of UK residence she will be outside the scope of the withdrawal agreement as it applies to EU co-ordination rules, which is both good news and bad news:
- it means Ireland won’t be the competent state for PIP(dl), but
- it also means she wont be able to by-pass the past presence test
Really appreciate the detailed clarification on this! Thank you
PIP is more difficult. If she has no history of UK residence she will be outside the scope of the withdrawal agreement as it applies to EU co-ordination rules, which is both good news and bad news:
- it means Ireland won’t be the competent state for PIP(dl), but
- it also means she wont be able to by-pass the past presence test
Does the UK-Ireland Convention not help her bypass the PPT if UK is competent?
Article 6 I think holds the key (with my emphasis):
Aggregation Provisions
(1) This Article applies where the legislation of a Party makes the following
conditional upon the completion of insurance periods, and periods of employment,
self-employment or residence:(a) the acquisition, retention, duration or recovery of the right to benefits;
(b) coverage by legislation; or
(c) access to or exemption from compulsory or voluntary insurance.(2) Where this Article applies, and unless otherwise provided by this Convention,
a Party shall to the extent necessary take into account insurance periods, or periods
of employment, self-employment or residence completed under the legislation of the
other Party as though they were periods completed under its own legislation.
Note that Article 19 of the Convention regarding “long term care benefits” (PIP DL falls within this) says:
Long Term Care Benefits under the Legislation of the United Kingdom
(1) Subject to paragraph (2), a person and any members of their family residing in
Ireland shall be entitled to long term care benefits in accordance with the legislation
of the United Kingdom, where the United Kingdom has competence to pay such
benefits.(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), when determining entitlement to such
benefit under the legislation of the United Kingdom:
(a) any condition requiring that an EU Social Security Coordination
Regulation applies shall not apply; and
(b) as regards periods spent in Ireland, only periods of residence during
which the person was insured prior to the day on which entitlement to
the relevant benefit first arises, may be taken into account in so far as is
necessary to satisfy a condition requiring presence in the United
Kingdom.
So this seems to say it applies specifically to those resident in Ireland (not vice versa). In fact, Ireland doesn’t seem to have any benefits within that same category. So Article 6 should apply in my understanding.
I also wondered if Kavanagh is potentially relevant but I’ve not got read it closely. You may not need to consider it if you can persuade them re: the Convention.
[ Edited: 5 Mar 2024 at 01:24 pm by Greg ]Thanks for that, I’ll admit to not being familiar with the UK/Ireland Convention - it occurred to me there might be something of that type.
Article 19 seems to be concerned with people residing in Ireland - is it providing for PIP(dl) to be exported to Ireland after entitlement in the UK has been established?
I wonder whether the general aggregation rules in Article 6 would apply instead though?
There was similar discussion in the recent past.