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Renting privately from a social landlord -does the LHA apply
Hi all
Our local RSL (HA) has purchased a block of flats all privately rented. The HA will continue to rent these flats “privately” - some of their tenants will need to claim HB - I assume the HB will be assessed as per LHA rules despite the landlord being a RSL ?
With the exception of the small number of “for profit” registered providers in England, in any case where the claimant’s landlord is a housing association the HB claim is assessed under the rules for housing associations. This means the full rent is normally covered unless the bedroom tax applies; occasionally very high rents are referred to the Rent Officer for a local reference rent. The one option that never applies is LHA.
Hmm bit unsure, I would say that if the RSL has purchased a block of flats with folks in it, then those folks maintain the conditions and terms of the tenancy they had before purchase….so if you had someone in there prior to 89, then the answer would be not in that case (?)
HB anorak will put me right.
Many thanks Peter- I believe that the level of rent the HA concerned is charging for these “private assured short hold tenancies” will be a lot more than the equivalent general need assured tenancies so l expect the HB Office to refer these to the RO on basis of the rents being excessive - if the rent/HB was then restricted the tenant can appeal , has any one had experience of such cases ?
The process of establishing how the claimant’s eligible rent is calculated is rather tortuous - you have to work backwards from Reg 13D and eliminate options one at a time.
Reg 12D says that a maximum rent (LHA) is determined under Reg 13D when required by Reg 13C. Reg 13C says that a max rent LHA is required on any rent allowance case from 7/4/08 onwards, but para (5) says Reg 13C does not apply in any case where “the landlord is ... a non-profit registered provider of social housing” (from your user details I am assuming you are inn England). It does not say anything about the kind of tenancy - the only requirement is that the landlord is a non-profit HA and that is enough to prevent LHA from applying.
The next option is a traditional local reference rent (“maximum rent”) under Reg 13, but that doesn’t apply to “excluded tenancies” defined in Schedule 2. Registered HA tenancies are excluded under para 3 of Schedule 2 unless the Council considers the rent unreasonably high.
Next option is the maximum rent (social sector) under Regs A13 and B13, which can involve the bedroom tax. This applies to the majority of registered HA tenancies, the main exception being homeless temp acc.
The final option is Reg 12B which is the full rent less ineligible service charges.
Oh and “exempt accommodation” trumps all of the above, but your description of this property does not suggest that will be the case.
In conclusion I think the eligible rent will be determined under Regs A13 and B13 which means the Council will pay the full amount unless anyone is subject to the bedroom tax.
P.S. sorry, overlapped with stevemac’s last post. Yes I think there ought to be a right of appeal - I think the Tribunal could remake the Council’s decision to the effect that the rent is not unreasonably high and the RO determination would then be null and void. There is a weird and eccentric case R (oao Sobko) v RBK&C which ended up in the high court to decide whether a case should have been referred to the RO or decided under LHA rules with a hint that a Tribunal might have declined jurisdiction but it is a very odd case and its substantive conclusions about “cooking facilities” are utter nonsense ... I would tend to ignore it.
[ Edited: 5 May 2016 at 12:59 pm by HB Anorak ]I agree, tenancy status is not relevant for the HB Regs, on this point, as long as there is a legal liability to pay rent. And rent can take many forms. It is the status of the landlord that counts. The interesting thing for me is the level of rents set in their existing tenancies which, as Martin quite rightly says, remain in play until determined, and whether they will trigger referrals to the rent officer.
Yes it could to be interesting.
Please tell us Steve
1) Is anyone being served notice.
2) Is anyone being offered a new tenancy
3) Is anyone getting a rent increase/decrease
Hi Martin
I am awaiting a response from the HA to your questions -will let you know!
Some HA’s have separate subsidiary businesses set up to run their mid-market and market rent properties. May be worth checking if these are HA properties or owned by a different part of or different business but managed by the HA.
[ Edited: 9 May 2016 at 11:56 am by Jac ]Some HA’s have separate subsidiary businesses set up to run their mid-market and market rent properties. May be worth checking if these are HA properties or owned by a different part of or different business but managed by the HA.
Aha…
Morning all - update on this, our local HB Office have advised the HA concerned that even if/when new tenancy agreements are issued to tenants (as was thought likely) they will be referring any future HB claims then received to the RO on basis of “excessive rent” arguments and in meantime they insist that the LHA rules do apply to any tenant making an application now for HB arguing:
“This concerns the definition of a social landlord:
Reg. 68 Basic principle
(1)In this Part “social housing” means—
(a)low cost rental accommodation (defined by section 69), and
(b)low cost home ownership accommodation (defined by section 70).
(2)Accommodation which becomes “social housing” by satisfying subsection (1)(a) or (b) remains “social housing” for the purposes of this Part unless and until an event specified in sections 73 to 76 occurs.
(3)Section 77 makes transitional provision as a result of which certain accommodation is to be treated as “social housing” whether or not it satisfies subsection (1)(a) or (b).
Reg. 69 Low cost rental
Accommodation is low cost rental accommodation if—
(a)it is made available for rent,
(b)the rent is below the market rate, and
(c)the accommodation is made available in accordance with rules designed to ensure that it is made available to people whose needs are not adequately served by the commercial housing market.
As the properties have been taken over from a private landlord and are continuing on the existing market basis of the current tenancy they do not meet the definition of social housing and as such will continue to be treated as ordinary tenancies subject to LHA rules until new tenancy agreements are drafted which adhere to the definition under Reg. 69.”
Some HA’s have separate subsidiary businesses set up to run their mid-market and market rent properties. May be worth checking if these are HA properties or owned by a different part of or different business but managed by the HA.
is this common in scotland? ive never heard of it.
Doesn’t matter whether it is social housing or not: HB eligible rent depends on landlord being a registered provider. They need to read Reg 13C(5)
Thanks Peter - will be interesting to see the result of the threatened RO referrals (and subsequent outcome of affected tenant’s HB appeals against rent restriction)
Some HA’s have separate subsidiary businesses set up to run their mid-market and market rent properties. May be worth checking if these are HA properties or owned by a different part of or different business but managed by the HA.
is this common in scotland? ive never heard of it.
This isn’t something I have much experience of but it seems to me that if you are running a business which owns stock in one regulatory framework (social housing say) and are proposing to buy stock which exists in a completely different framework (private rented homes with sitting tenants), you would absolutely want to set up a subsidiary company to handle the new venture. Otherwise the requirements of both regimes start to bleed together in weird ways - this thread being a case in point.
It seems strange that this didn’t happen in your case.
Some HA’s have separate subsidiary businesses set up to run their mid-market and market rent properties. May be worth checking if these are HA properties or owned by a different part of or different business but managed by the HA.
is this common in scotland? ive never heard of it.
I think a number of HAs do it and they are called mid market rents, mostly its the bigger national HAs and I think it is more common in the Edinburgh area. I think they get a short assured tenancy agreement rather than a scottish secured tenancy agreement, and tend to be done through the factoring arm of their business so not necessarily through the actual HA. Could not testify to how LAs treat their HB application, whether it is LHA or HA style HB.