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unable to wash and bathe due to a mental health condition
I am preparing a tribunal submission for a man who has delusional and paranoid disorders including a fear/distrust of electricity. He does use it to a limited degree but avoids it whenever possible. Consequently he will not use his electric hot water heater and only washes in cold water at the sink. He says that he has gone years without taking a bath or shower.
Looking at the descriptors I can’t really see anything that covers it other than (c) - supervision or prompting. I would like to argue (g) - that he cannot wash or bathe at all to an acceptable standard only using cold water at the sink but the wording of the descriptor seems to stymie that. He does not need another person to wash his entire body. The wash OR bathe in (b) and (c) also becomes wash AND bathe at (g).
Guess I am stuck with (c) but any thoughts welcome.
I think you’re stuck with (c) Billy. Leaving aside him not requiring physical assistance to wash his body it’s probably arguable that it’s possible to wash or bathe in cold water ‘to an acceptable standard’ (albeit not one of my favorite pastimes!)
and unless he only has electric where he lives, he could alternatively boil a kettle on gas…..
“bathe” involves using a bath or shower and an inability to do so would mean he cannot do it. It’s like the old motivation to cook stuff in DLA; he has a condition which presents symptomatology that prevents him using a bath or shower.
I’d be arguing for 8 points with my eye on the UT; he cannot wash *and bathe…
it’s probably arguable that it’s possible to wash or bathe in cold water ‘to an acceptable standard’
I like to leave questions like that to the UT…
The issue is not to do with can or cannot, assisted or unassisted bathe but the method of how the water is heated affecting the outcome.
The options are as far as I can tell - Electricity, Gas, Solar or Geothermal.
Only the last two would avoid the use of electricity - unless you’re including shower pumps or the like.
Of the last two - Solar would require living outside of the UK for more than half the time and the last one to move to the suburbs of Reykjavik.
Thanks all.
Dan, I moved round to your way of thinking and have gone for G, with C as the fallback. I think there is a bit of a weakness in his case in that he does use other electrical appliances but I’ll give it a go. His flat only has electricity, not gas. I certainly think that there is a good argument to be had that only washing in cold water is not washing to an acceptable standard, it’s less likely to kill germs, etc. NHS advice for example, always says to wash your hands in warm, soapy water.
Will let you know how we get on.
I must admit that when discussing this with my (bored) other half last night her somewhat predictable response was ‘You are trying to get someone PIP because he hasn’t had a bath for years? Why can’t you get it for yourself then?’
it’s probably arguable that it’s possible to wash or bathe in cold water ‘to an acceptable standard’
I like to leave questions like that to the UT…
So do I. But I’d want to argue the point on a case with better facts….
Surely this has some parallels with something like the main-meal test for DLA? In the sense that where two people have identical difficulties with preparing a main meal, we don’t end up in a situation where person a) does not qualify because they can grill a lamb chop, boil and mash some spuds and steam some broccoli over the top whilst the spuds are boiling but person b) does qualify because, for cultural reasons, any main meal they would cook would involve much lengthier and laborious processes….
If Billy’s client lived in a flat with a gas boiler/water heater the issue wouldn’t arise. And a claimant with the an identical fear of water heated by electricity - but who happens to live in a flat with a gas boiler - isn’t going to qualify…..
Far better, surely, to test the question of whether one can wash to an acceptable standard in cold water with a client who has a fear of/inability to use hot water no matter how it is heated…...
[ Edited: 14 Apr 2016 at 10:45 am by past caring ]How will you get around the ‘another person’ aspect of (G) Billy?
Aye, that too.
How will you get around the ‘another person’ aspect of (G) Billy?
With difficulty I would imagine but “assistance means physical intervention by another person” in the PIP Regs and I would say that could include switching on a water heater and/or running a hot bath.
I don’t hold out a great deal of hope on getting them to accept G but nothing ventured… I am also pretty hopeful that we will get ERDL anyway so think it is unlikely that this will proceed to UTT.
PC, I ain’t a gas engineer but are there any gas boilers that work without electricity?
I don’t know. Has to be technically possible - all the electricity is doing is controlling the timing of the ignition. And it’s not that long back I lived in place where you had to to switch the ignition on the boiler on manually…...probably condemned by now, to be fair….
I shall be really interested to hear how this one pans out. Do keep us posted Billy.
Of the last two - Solar would require living outside of the UK for more than half the time and the last one to move to the suburbs of Reykjavik.
Have we walked outside recently? Solar panels everywhere. I would imagine baths and showers are exactly what they power.
Of the last two - Solar would require living outside of the UK for more than half the time and the last one to move to the suburbs of Reykjavik.
Have we walked outside recently? Solar panels everywhere. I would imagine baths and showers are exactly what they power.
I think most of the solar panels are for creating electricity for use and feeding back what’s not used.
The grant system might have been abused a bit as I did a home visit and noted the plug in point for an electric car - client couldn’t drive said the installer said he could have it for ‘free.’
It was half in jest about solar water heating what with living and working underwater here in Stockport.
Take it you must believe the hype?
Does solar thermal really work in the UK?
Contrary to popular belief the amount of solar radiation received across the UK makes our country ideally suited to delivering a highly efficient solar water heating system.
The solar heating map highlights the medium to high intensity of sunlight received across much of the UK. For the areas which are exposed to lower levels of sunshine we have specifically developed our Greenskies range to utilize both direct and indirect sunlight..
https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/products/solar/explained
Have never believed any hype on anything ever John.