What might trigger a transfer to UC in a digital area?

Hi Clive

I haven’t had any answers yet - we have the next stakeholder’s meeting on 16th with an update from UC so I’m hoping for some answers then though I think I can answer some of your questions -

1) if they move out of cathedral square JCA they will stay on UC - lobster pot principle - unless they can wangle some way out as here - http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/9073/

2) they won’t have to claim UC if they move into the digital area (unless as you say something happens that would have meant a claim to a legacy benefit) - they would stay on legacy benefits until migration starts sometime in 2018 and beyond

HB Anorak has answered your other question - it’s UC to UC - as, as he says, the rules that are different in the digital scheme for surplus earnings and carrying forward of self-employed losses which were due to come in April 2016 have been delayed to April 2017 - http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/welfare-rights/news/item/Delay-in-intrdouction-of-universal-credit-surpluses-and-self-employed-re

Hi all

Attached are replies to questions put forward to operational stakeholders so far - they don’t actually provide legislative references unfortunately.

Hi Daphne; I’m not sure I follow point 2.  Where are the action points they refer to?

Raises more questions than it answers, I think. If I could understand their answer to Q2 I might be able to guess how it could possibly relate to Q3 and Q4 which look like entirely different questions.  Presumably UCDS will follow you round if you move out of the digital area - or will it? The answer to Q1 manages to be shouty but unclear on this - a bit like the old SoS.

Sorry Gareth - that refers to an action point in the minutes which says -

Couples with one person over Pension Credit qualifying age can currently choose to claim either Pension Credit or Universal Credit. We plan to restrict entitlement to Pension Credit for such couples, to take effect when Universal Credit is available nationally for all new claims (the full digital service). This will ensure that the working age partner receives the right support and incentives to move into work and where appropriate they are required to meet work related conditions. Existing couples who are already claiming Pension Credit are not affected and will continue on that benefit.

That’s very useful - thanks Daphne.  So it sounds from ...

“... We plan to restrict entitlement to Pension Credit for such couples [mixed-age], to take effect when Universal Credit is available nationally for all new claims (the full digital service). ... “

... that the mixed-age rules won’t change until the digital service is fully available everywhere - ie June 2018 (according to the the latest timetable.)

In this thread - http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewreply/43205/  - Paul had been told

“We heard from DWP OSEF contacts that rules requiring mixed-age couples to claim UC rather than PC are to be implemented as part of the Full Digital Service roll-out from May 2016 onwards.”

which sounded much more like the mixed-age rules being phased-in (by area) from May 2016.

Do you know which is correct?

A family in receipt of CTC and HB move to a different LA area and into a digital service area. I appreciate they need to claim UC. They move after April ‘17, my questions are

1. Are they transitionally protected?
2. Will the [higher] first child element be included in their UC assessment?
3. Will they be caught by the two child rule(assuming they have more than 2 children)?

I think I know the answers to my questions but I would very much like to be wrong.

Any thoughts?

lost in Granite - 01 April 2016 02:21 PM

A family in receipt of CTC and HB move to a different LA area and into a digital service area. I appreciate they need to claim UC. They move after April ‘17, my questions are

1. Are they transitionally protected?
2. Will the [higher] first child element be included in their UC assessment?
3. Will they be caught by the two child rule(assuming they have more than 2 children)?

I think I know the answers to my questions but I would very much like to be wrong.

Any thoughts?

As far as anyone knows the specific transitional protection for claimants moving from legacy to UC will only apply to “managed migration” (which probably won’t even have started in April 2017) - this wouldn’t be “managed migration” but a change of circumstances so that sort of TP is a non-starter.

(Nobody can say for certain how this will work because there are no regs covering legacy->UC transionional protection (not even draft regs) - only (now ancient) policy briefing notes. Given the U-turn on tax credits cuts, a huge chunk of projected savings are now dependent on getting as many people as possible onto UC (quickly!) with as few transitionally protected cases as possible - so you can be fairly certain that DWP will try to restrict this sort of TP as much much as possible.)

However, in the 2015 Summer Budget policy costings there’s this…

“Limit child element to 2 children for new births in tax credits and
new claims in UC ... In UC those who have received tax credits or UC with an interruption of less than 6 months will be protected.”

and

“Remove family element in tax credits and UC, and the family
premium in Housing Benefit, for new claims ... In UC those who have received tax credits or UC with an interruption of less than 6 months will be protected.”

So as well as transitional protection within legacy for the two-child rule/family element and within universal credit for two-child-rule/higher-first-child-element - the above suggests there will also be some sort of protection (for these specific elements) across a change of circumstance transition between legacy and UC.  Or is that too optimistic?

Many thanks for your detailed response, and my apologies for taking so long.

I don’t know if anyone can confirm my understanding, for change in circs in full service area (and sorry if this has already been covered somewhere) ... claimant on HB and JSA (or IS/ESA) moves into work. They already have a child and get CTC:

- they can come off HB and DWP benefit, and start getting WTC, as it’s just a change of circs on their tax credit award.

- But, if they still wanted (and qualified for) help with housing costs, it would be a UC claim, in which case tax credits would then end.

-  even if no housing costs, they can always choose to end their tax credit award, and then start a UC claim.

Is that right? If so, then there may be cases where claimants should be making an informed choice about whether to go with WTC or UC.

If they are already on HB, then it would be a HB change of circs rather than a new claim, so a UC claim would not be triggered..

Oops, yes, thank you.

But I think it’s still the case that someone getting CTC and starting work should be looking at the pros and cons of deciding to switch to UC.

Going back to Jon’s post of 23rd March - Can anyone confirm whether the mixed-age rule for PC will change area by area as the digital service is phased in from this month? Or will there be no change until the digital service has been fully rolled out? I keep reading different things in different places.

Jo Raine - 19 May 2016 09:56 AM

Going back to Jon’s post of 23rd March - Can anyone confirm whether the mixed-age rule for PC will change area by area as the digital service is phased in from this month? Or will there be no change until the digital service has been fully rolled out? I keep reading different things in different places.

For reference my post was…

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewreply/43249/

.. and I still don’t know for sure- the only thing I’d see pointing to possible phased introduction during 2016 is just what Paul had been told:-

“We heard from DWP OSEF contacts that rules requiring mixed-age couples to claim UC rather than PC are to be implemented as part of the Full Digital Service roll-out from May 2016 onwards.”

( http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewreply/43205/ )

but I’ve not seen anything to clarify if that really means the mixed-age couple switch-over itself happens “from May 2016 onwards” (I’m hoping not) or at the end of the Full Digital Service roll-out ( ie 2018-ish)

I was told by a senior DWP person that it’s intended to be at the end of full rollout.  Mind you, she also added “of course that could change and I’d probably be the last person to find out”.