housing entitlements in the social sector

I can see landlords opposing this.  Suppose you have a very small 3 bedroomed flat in a poor quality estate which you let for (say) £60 to household that only “qualifies” for 2 bedrooms.  Do they get a reduction?  What happens to this reduction if you move them to a nicer 2 bedroomed and more spacious property at £90?

Although target rents were supposed to result in some rent convergence of rents in practice the formula meant that this never happened. Now we are to have itermediate rents small flats will often cost more than some large ones that are still let under the old scheme.#

I don’t think this is workable, but then that will not stop them

Heres Inside Housing take…...http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/analysis/in-depth/the-way-ahead/6513822.article

Some useful examples of what this could mean…

chris smith - 01 March 2011 01:47 PM

I can see landlords opposing this.  Suppose you have a very small 3 bedroomed flat in a poor quality estate which you let for (say) £60 to household that only “qualifies” for 2 bedrooms.  Do they get a reduction?  What happens to this reduction if you move them to a nicer 2 bedroomed and more spacious property at £90?

Although target rents were supposed to result in some rent convergence of rents in practice the formula meant that this never happened. Now we are to have itermediate rents small flats will often cost more than some large ones that are still let under the old scheme.#

I don’t think this is workable, but then that will not stop them

My understanding is that all working age tenants who are overoccupying will be affected, we reckon its round 33% of all social tenants. So yes your small 3 bed would be affected, and one “solution” would be to “encourage”  (either that or they top-up, get a job, get evicted for arrears etc)  the tenant to move to smaller. But note LA housing queues differ ....in some areas for example you have more 2 beds than 1 beds, so downsizing will not always be possible…..

And if we look at the LHA, any cut would probably be immediate.  So how will landlords respond when a son or daughter leaves home, or wheny they want to allocate to someone in the early stages of pregnancy?

This is currently being discussed in pariament. Some interesting points abouts the impacts of carers who hold a social tenancy (looking after elderly relatives) occupying 3 bed converted homes….having to move to smaller…....etc and what about the woman and two under 10 of different sex, they have to either face the HB hit, or move to smaller for a year or so, before becoming reeligible for a three bed.

Law of unitended consequences…....

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmtoday/cmstand/output/pbc154/pb110503p-02.htm

The benefit reform to deal with Overaccommodation in the social sector…..remains a massive issue for social housing landlords.
The plan is to free up properties, by restricting benefits to the number of rooms an applicant uses.

The National Housing Federation has produced stats to show that not all the 670,000 folks with two bed houses that are overaccommodated by 1 bedroom… are going to be able to be allocated/moved to a 1 bedroom let, as total new lets are only 68000 across the sector per year…....

So what happens to these 600.000 plus households, they face a 15% cut in HB, and not all are going to find work, or be able to easily top up…..?

The maths is not adding up. These folks could go for a private sector, one bed,  but err this will cost the tax payer more as private 1 beds are expensive.

So really the govt is going to have to retarget this reform?

here’s a link to rightsnet news story on NHF warning that cut to HB will ‘backfire’ -

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/news/story/plans-to-cut-housing-benefit-for-claimants-in-homes-that-are-deemed-too-big/

“The maths is not adding up. These folks could go for a private sector, one bed,  but err this will cost the tax payer more as private 1 beds are expensive.”

Probably not if if they are under 35 and only get the shared room rate!

Ok single room rate might be below council 2 bed rates, but the great majority of people effected are going to be 35-60.
Presumably u 35s are going to “find” the top up elsewhere rather than downsize to a room in shared…..Failiing that we are going to see social rent arrears rise.

There are a number of complex and interlinked issues here including, inter alia,

Shared rooom type properties are undersupplied
4 bed homes cannot be afforded for those on benefits, at LHA rent levels, once benefit capping starts
Private rents, and therefore 80% market rents, are not linear
RSLs are encouraged to build a variety of different sized properties in proportions that don’t recognise the situations that are going to exist
The benefits cap, pre Universal Credit, will ONLY be applied to HB.

Like a lot of this governments top-down headline based proposals, the unintended consequences are just beginning to appear.

I have been feeding into this debate for some time. What i can say on it is that:

* “working age” seems to be defined by the age of state pension eligibility. Therefore many of those who are grossly under-occupied will not be affected by this at all.

* The shortage of one bedroom properties in the Social Rented Sector (i.e; council and Housing associations etc) will force people into the private sector at greater cost to the public purse - unless both market rent and RSL rents were to be equalised which would be far too costly.

* The Government is urging RSLs to charge up to 80% of Market Rents for re-lets and new builds, which would definatly exceed an LHA set at social rent levels - so who would we be housing?

It seems that the different arms of government are comming up with polar oppersite policies and not talking to each other! Ask them about this and they just say “Discretionary Housing Payment” as though the “trippled” budget would meet anything above 1% of caseload if meeting full liability!!!

So we can only wait and see really

Of course the big idea is indeed to equalise social and private rents, and then ultimately tenancies. There will then be a free market….

And everyone will be sorted…..

jj - 24 June 2010 05:50 PM

i fear it means elderly couples and persons occupying fairly nice council houses which they may have lived in for many years or all their lives, but for whatever reason hadn’t been able to buy, will be starved out of their homes to go and die in a shoebox, in the name of ‘fairness’, and the property will ultimately end up in a property investor’s hands, cos they’ve had losses to recoup…

or am i just being silly now…

As far as i know it will only applie to working age claimants.

Westminster are planning to charge rents on the basis of ability to pay…..Higher rents for higher earners….So has this most right wing of councils gone all socialist? Really? What is left and what is right?

http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2011-05-26-Westminster-used-false-claims-to-push-for-council-rents-hike

Whoagh!!! This might be a tad worrying for the coalition. http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2011-05-30-Housing-benefit-paid-direct-to-tenants-our-primary-concern-says-Santander  >Now as a minister it seems you can safely ignore your whinging liberal types and your dinosaur socialists….. but can you ignore the banking sector?