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On DLA and inadvertently claim PIP as think it is a different benefit
Claimant on DLA mrc and lrm and makes claim for PIP thinking he will get this on top of DLA if awarded.
Has medical for PIP coming up if doesn’t go and is disallowed for PIP will that cancel DLA claim?
Thanks
Linda
Significant and underreported issue for the hearing impaired community. DLA claim now dead as I understand it.
Not necessarily
They can only convert to PIP on a change of circs if the person who triggered the assessment has enough information to reasonably believe there would be a change in component.
Not sure about appeal rights as with the person I looked at this with, by the time their PIP decision was completed their DLA would have expired anyway so it would have been a hiding to nothing but it’s worth looking in to.
My understanding is that if he claimed it rather than doing it as a change of circumstances the PIP would override the DLA -provided the claimant lived in a reassessment area at the time.
If the claimant tried to claim PIP or reported a change of circs before they were in a reassessment area, the PIP system should flag up that they are on DLA and they should be referred back to DLA.
We’ve had exactly that situation here where the PIP claim was made 3 days before we became a reassessment area and PIP have confirmed that they should not have taken the claim. Looking at our reassessment map it appears Glasgow became a reassessment area on 26 January (as we did) so if the PIP claim was made before that date it should not have been accepted, nor should reporting a change of circs have triggered reassessment.
That doesn’t mean it isn’t happening in practice because the people on the PIP claim line don’t understand it. But once PIP have been told there was a current DLA award the PIP claim should not progress.
If this claimant was living in a reassessment area at the time, I agree it will come down to whether it was a PIP claim (which would make them a “self selector”) or a change of circumstances. I also agree that change of circs should only trigger reassessment if it is one that is likely to affect the amount payable - but again, the PIP claim line staff seem to have very little understanding of this.
Thanks all for the input. Claimant’s niece phoned for DLA review as told him he should be on high rate mobility but according to DBC she self selected her uncle on 9/1/15 to claim PIP and now he is on the PIP journey there is no going back. Waiting for call back from case manager.
Claimant on DLA mrc and lrm and makes claim for PIP thinking he will get this on top of DLA if awarded.
Has medical for PIP coming up if doesn’t go and is disallowed for PIP will that cancel DLA claim?Thanks
Linda
The DM must make a negative determination under Reg 9(2) PIP Regs where the claimant fails without good reason to attend a consultation, provided adequate notification of the consultation was provided. Reg 10 provides that good reason may include the state of the claimant’s health and nature of his/her disability but that list is not exhaustive. If a negative determination is made, the DLA entitled person whom, as Rosie notes, the DWP refer to as a “self selector” but whom the PIP Transitional Regs refer to as a “voluntary transfer claimant” will have their DLA terminated 14 days after the first DLA pay date following the negative determination concerned.
I agree that a PIP claim, including an inadvertent one as here, made by a voluntary transfer claimant will eventually cause the DLA award to end irrespective of the outcome of the PIP. However, possibly with one proviso: the person’s PIP claim will, its seems, have had to be properly made in accordance with Reg 11(6) UC etc Claims and Payments Regs 2013. If it is defective (see the definition of defective claim in paras (3) and (4) of above Reg 11), eg because the claimant hasn’t provided all of the information in his initial tele call or written PIP1 claim form necessary to determine the claim, the person does not become a voluntary transfer claimant until the defect is corrected and the claim becomes “properly made”. That’s because Reg 2(1) defines voluntary transfer claimant as ”a DLA entitled person who has claimed personal independence payment under regulation 4. Reg 2(2) then goes on to expressly exclude a defective claim from the definition of “the making of a claim” for the purpose of most of the PIP Transitional Regs including, crucially, Regs 2 & 4. Consequently, I’d want to see a transcript or copy of his answers to the PIP1 info. If incomplete then, depending on which info is missing, it’s arguable that the claim is defective. Chances are in your client’ s case, because s/he’s at the invitation to a consultation stage, the claim will be properly made, however, it’s still worth checking because it seems a DM does not have discretion to overlook certain missing information, even if he has done so, and a claim will remain defective until it’s put right. Defective PIP claim = person not a voluntary transfer claimant = not affected by PIP Transitional Regs.
Reg 12 PIP Transitional Regs appears ineffective given the above definitions. Reg 12 attempts to apply the same penalties, ie suspension of DLA followed by termination, to a voluntary transfer claimant as apply to a person who is invited to claim DLA (a “notified person”) who makes a defective claim that’s not put right. However, Reg 12 expressly applies to a voluntary transfer claimant but by definition such a person must have already properly made a PIP claim, ie one defined by Reg2 Transitional Regs, so the question of whether that claim is defective is nonsensical.
Sorry that’s very technical and I could be wrong.
Glasgow wasn’t a reassessment area on 9 January.
yes Rosie, so I think he should not have been able to become a “self selector” at this time. Will see what case manager has to say
..Looking at our reassessment map it appears Glasgow became a reassessment area on 26 January (as we did) so if the PIP claim was made before that date it should not have been accepted, nor should reporting a change of circs have triggered reassessment.
Agree. But I think there’s a problem if the client has, in fact, made a claim for PIP and the date of that claim is on or after 26th Jan. Despite there being no legal basis for the invitation to claim PIP, the fact would remain that a claim for PIP had been made. If, moreover, that claim was properly made then the person would appear to be a voluntary transfer claimant. That’s a bit of a misnomer as the transfer’s hardly “voluntary” when the law prevents you from pulling out. You don’t say who made the PIP claim: relative or client (the former appears to have requested supersession of the DLA). There’s provision in the PIP transitional regs for appointees.
If the claim for PIP was, like the notification of the change of circs, made before 26th Jan then there’s no legal basis for it as Rosie suggests - Reg 4 Transitional Regs.
Update on case for information
We raised a complaint with DBC and they listened to the telephone call, a newly trained adviser did not check DLA in payment and did not explain how review under PIP would work and risk to DLA. So despite PIP medical last Friday they will withdraw PIP claim as if it never happened and client will keep DLA mid care and SDP. Phew!
That’s good news! Hopefully I can try and get the same done with my similar case highlighted here http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/7859/
My client says she rang to ask about Carer’s Allowance and the PIP adviser said she would need to be on Daily Living component. The client says she did say she had HR Mobility and had a car but the adviser definitely did not warn about risk of losing it with PIP . I think she probably did say she had increased care needs though. My argument would hinge on whether warning of risks is a requirement.
Think I’ll put a complaint in too and see if we can get the same outcome as you got.
[ Edited: 5 Mar 2015 at 01:06 pm by JoW ]I think you also need to have not been in reassessment area at time of self selection as it should not be possible to self select until then.