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Waiting days for UC
I know a consultation was done on the 7 waiting days for UC and the regs have come in for JSA and ESA, but I see no sign of waiting day regs for UC - so does entitlement start from day 1 and is there a date for waiting days to be brought in?
Cheers
found the draft regs and that plan is April 2015 - so will be nicely ready before we get it here
I think 7 waiting days for UC, in reality claimants will wait around 5 weeks.
More like 6 weeks - 7 waiting days, a month in arrears, and then a week for payment to get to bank account
More like 6 weeks - 7 waiting days, a month in arrears, and then a week for payment to get to bank account
...provided that the payday doesn’t then fall on a Saturday or Sunday, in which case they whole system falls down (at least according to that NAWRA workshop on UC pilot).
More like 6 weeks - 7 waiting days, a month in arrears, and then a week for payment to get to bank account
...provided that the payday doesn’t then fall on a Saturday or Sunday, in which case they whole system falls down (at least according to that NAWRA workshop on UC pilot).
Which puts tenants straight into rent arrears-lovely! Oh hang on, roll out is for single tenants with no housing costs *rolls eyes*
No mortgage costs - but rollout does include those with rental costs so rent arrears will be accruing…
Go on - Ask about shared owners with earnings. :-(
I know that one Gareth - the worst of every world. No help with their mortgage but the minimum work allowance. At least they don’t meet the gateway conditions currently…
Help, understand why no help with mortgage cos work, but why the lower earnings allowance, did I know this and forget, or did I never understand this?
It’s specific to shared ownership Barbara. they get no help with mortgage because working, and they get minimum work allowance because they are getting help with housing costs for the rented part - just the way the legislation works is particularly detrimental to this group.
Thank you, relieved to say had forgotten, will go and take some more memory aiding drugs!
The Universal Credit (Waiting Days) (Amendment) Regulations 2015 2015 No 1362
“9A. (1) Entitlement to universal credit does not arise in the first 7 days of the period in respect of which the claim is made if—
(a) on the first day of that period (“the relevant date”) the claimant, or either of joint claimants, falls within section 22 of the Act (claimants subject to all work-related requirements); and
(b) none of the exceptions in paragraph (3) applies.
(2) A claimant who may fall outside section 22 of the Act only because they have limited capability for work is to be taken to fall within that section for the purposes of this regulation.”
*****
In relation to (2), what about claimants in the UC version of the Support Group? Hasn’t ESA case law now established that to have LCWRA you must also have LCW? How would that work since the waiting period is at the start of the claim? Maybe this is a non issue!
Claimants don’t fall within section 22 of the Act if they have LCWRA, by virtue of section 19 of the Act.
I’m disgusted by the petty provision of the new Reg. 20a, where no passporting by Universal Credit will apply during the waiting period, creating a double whammy of less money and more expense.
We were assured more than once by DWP that this change would not result in a 6-week wait for payment (payment would be after one month plus the week, we were told, but one week ‘short’, which was bad enough) But it does, doesn’t it? I can’t see any other way to interpret matters.
I read it as you aren’t entitled for the first 7 days of your assessment period (running from the relevant date) in which case payment would still be 7 days after the start of your next assessment period but, as you say, the payment would be reduced by the 7 days entitlement. What does anyone else think?
Bad drafting. The way I read Reg 21 as amended, the new para (1A) delays the commencement of the assessment period for seven days. What isn’t terribly clear is what Reg 19A means when it talks about the “period” for which UC is claimed.
What isn’t terribly clear is what Reg 19A means when it talks about the “period” for which UC is claimed.
I think that ‘period’ for that purpose begins on the date of claim and that the first 7 days are the days following. Any other reading could ensure that the claim is never treated as made. There is no entitlement during the first seven days of the period but the circumstances at the point of claim matter.
Sorry - I agree now - looked at it properly - the assessment period only begins with the first day of entitlement which is after the waiting days. Which, as you say Andrew, is not what the DWP were saying about how it would operate before.
So the ‘period’ in 19a is not the ‘assessment period’?
Just to recap before I go out and sit in the sunshine and pretend none of this is happening -
I can only see the ‘period’ in Reg 19A as self-referring to ‘the period in respect of which the claim is made’ and not referring to the assessment period at all, and then the problem lies in amended Reg 21 (as cobbled together below) so I’m pretty sure the AP does not begin until the 7 days is over.
21.—(1) An assessment period is, subject to paragraph (5), a period of one month beginning with the first date of entitlement and each subsequent period of one month during which entitlement subsists.
“(1A) Where regulation 19A (waiting days) applies, the first day of entitlement for the purposes of paragraph (1) is the first day after the expiry of the 7 days referred to in paragraph (1) of that regulation (etc….)
From HMG’s response to the SSAC –
‘The Government notes the Committee’s concern that the introduction of waiting days will decrease the initial amount of Universal Credit paid. However, this is not the case. Where waiting days apply, the first day of entitlement to Universal Credit will be the day after the expiry of those days; and the claimant’s initial assessment period will run from the first day of entitlement for a whole month. The first payment of Universal Credit will therefore be in respect of a full assessment period and will be made seven calendar days after the end of that period.’
So a 6-week wait. Instead of getting short money after 5 weeks you get nowt for 6 weeks. Nice.
And as a side-issue:
‘Clear information about Universal Credit Advances is already published on the gov.uk website’.
Well: there is information there but it is in the form of a copy of a FOI request from July 2013 and it is scarcely in plain language. It offers a link to ‘further information’. There is none. The only other information offered is on budgeting advances.
Andrew - I raised the issue about advances with them when they finally put information about short-term benefit advances on gov.uk. At the same time they put a small bit of information on this universal credit page - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/claiming-universal-credit-from-april-2013 - but the actual leaflet doesn’t mention advances at all. They told me they had listened to my comments but couldn’t do anything during purdah - i shall be chasing them up…
They have now updated the leaflet - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/437900/making-your-uc-claim-june15.pdf - but there is just the smallest mention of advances at the top of page 3 -
Advance on your first payment
You may be able get an advance on your first Universal Credit payment if you’ve
recently been receiving another benefit or you’re in urgent financial need. Check with
your work coach.
Hmmm - still doesn’t match the boast that ‘Clear information about Universal Credit Advances is already published on the gov.uk website’. There should be a searchable heading for it. It is still buried.
I agree and I have chased them…
For a bit of reassurance please:
The UC waiting days apply to someone who “falls within section 22 of the Act (claimants subject to all work-related requirements)”
Does that mean it does not apply to those who do not fall within section 22? i.e. those in sections 21, 20 and 19 - such as work focused only group and work preparation only group (e.g. single parent with young child, certain foster carers)?
Section 22(1) seems to indicate that is the case “A claimant not falling within any of sections 19 - 21 falls within this section”
NB I understand the ‘exception’ where: “(2) A claimant who may fall outside section 22 of the Act only because they have limited capability for work is to be taken to fall within that section for the purposes of this regulation.”
I am also aware of the the list of exemptions e.g. victim of domestic violence, looking after disabled child, carer of child under 1, pregnant, adopter, in work but don’t meet the earning threshold etc.
Thank you
[ Edited: 6 Jul 2015 at 04:05 pm by clive ]I read it that way Clive
Thank you
Putting it another way:
The new reg [2015 No. 1362] says that the UC 7 waiting days apply to someone who “falls within section 22 of the Act (claimants subject to all work-related requirements)”
Section 22(1) “A claimant not falling within any of sections 19 - 21 falls within this section” seems to indicate to me that the waiting days do not apply to those who fall within sections 19 – 21.
As I say, I understand the ‘exception’ in the reg where: “(2) A claimant who may fall outside section 22 of the Act only because they have limited capability for work is to be taken to fall within that section for the purposes of this regulation.”
Postscript: I’ve had it confirmed by DWP HQ that - for those like me who need it spelling out in very simple terms - this is correct:
Apart from those with limited capability for work, those falling under Sections 19, 20 and 21 will not be subject to waiting days.
Plus the listed exceptions.
[ Edited: 8 Jul 2015 at 04:42 pm by clive ]Good morning Clive,
Reg 19(A)(1)(a) of SI 1362 says the claimant range of the 7 day Waiting Period is s22 of the Act, subject to exceptions.
But then Reg 19(A)(2) says apply the Waiting Period to those outside s22 of the Act, only if they are outside it because of LCW.
So those within the scope of s22 (plus those with LCW) are subject to the Waiting Period.
s22(1) says “A claimant not falling within any of sections 19 to 21 falls within this section.” It seems to me that the specific role of s22(1) is to say that s22 captures all those not in s19 to 21. So surely all those covered by s19 to 21must be outside scope of s22 (I can’t see how you could be both camps at once).
I therefore think you are right.
Still on the matter of the scope of the Waiting Period, it was pointed out to me earlier on Rightsnet that those with LCWRA are within s19, and therefore not in s22 and therefore not subject to the Waiting Period. But if I am making a new UC claim as a sick person, I will not at that point have LCWRA status. At that point I will surely only have ‘treated as’ LCW status (subject to the continuing impact of the abolition of the current ESA 6 month rule, and that it lingers into UC). So a person who only subsequently gets LCWRA status will nevertheless still enjoy the Waiting Period. Is that correct?
I think that’s right that those who are waiting assessment under the WCA will be hit by the waiting period.
On a side-note I also think that under UC you don’t get ‘treated as LCW’ during the initial three months - it’s not in schedule 8 and I don’t think it’s anywhere else. My understanding is that people who are submitting fit notes and awaiting a WCA are subject to all work-related requirements under UC although technically they can restrict the requirements under reg 97.