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Anyone had a PIP tribunal yet.
I have my first tribunal on Friday. I am attending with the claimant who has a lifelong hip deformity and was on High Mob low care of DLA for a number of years, renewed several times, before this renewal under PIP.
How was the tribunal, anything different that you didn’t expect?
No migration appeals yet- we’re still in a DLA area- but we’ve had quite a few straight PIP appeals (approx 8). All successful bar one. The panel makeup and procedure has been very similar to DLA appeals. The DWP was sending POs initially but there wasn’t one at the last appeal I attended so its probably wearing off again.
My experience is of a brand new PIP claim at appeal, not a renewal, if this helps…..
Initial tribunal in September - mental health and physical health issues. Claimant scored 9pts in the face to face but this was “put to scrutiny” and all but 3 points removed by ATOS and upheld by DWP in their decision. Of the 9 points originally given, she scored many on the aids and adaptations descriptors which were given to her by occupational health.
At appeal DWP officer accepted the scrutiny report was not to be relied upon but went further and stated our factual criticisms of the inital report totally undermined it.
At appeal, the panel went with what the DWP were saying and asked for further evidence - including claimant’s end of year results for her degree and a job description for her new job. The tribunal asked if the DWP could get another ATOS report (this is over 1yr since the original claim!) but DWP said they could ask ATOS but there is nothing in the contract to allow what would have been similar to EMP reports obtained under DLA.
Back at tribunal in October. Fully heard. Pretty much like a DLA tribunal (doctor dealing with basic medical stuff, followed by questions on mobility, then carer member dealing with blanket questions on daily living). I did notice and object to the carer member asking claimant to describe a “typical day”. I tried to point out that PIP is not like DLA in that a fuller picture of worst and better days needs to be taken because any day in which a point scoring descriptor may be awarded counts towards the “more than 50%” of the time way of working out points. Asking about a “typical day” (not your worst, not your best day) will crucially ignore potential points scoring days.
Judge not impressed - “typical day” is just a way of getting questions answered was his opinion.
Lost. DWP decision upheld (ie the 3 points total) and all points that were given for the aids and adaptations she has from occupational health ignored.
Awaiting FWRs and SORs.
I have been at two-lost both, sadly.I have one next week so I’ll let you know how it goes. I havent had many appeals, as many of my clients seem to be getting it without too much hassle.
Apart from the odd few howlers, I have to say I have found the PIP assessments to be pretty fair, and have had clients that I wasn’t 100% sure that they not would meet the descriptors getting awarded points-bizarre.However my understanding of the descriptors-and theirs could be at odds. Again mine was a new claim
The re-assessments from DLA will be fun though.
I did have a weird case of a client who failed a WCA assessment, yet 6 weeks later had a PIP face to face and they awarded Enhanced Daily Living and Enhanced Mobility.Ofc ourse, I fired that into the DWP for a Mandy
Thanks for comments - haven’t been on for a while !
We won the tribunal with Standard rate Mob which I suppose tallies with the old award of HRM on DLA . No Daily Living though. Appeal hearing pretty tame and relatively short. Client delighted with the outcome - wasn’t there for the money, saw it as a matter of principal. If I am honest it was the outcome I expected - though I did argue for more.
Don’t forget, for people who are converted from DLA to PIP and lose their HRM award, there is a £2,000 lump sum payment. Or there was ages ago around the time of the enhanced rate mobility consultation, and I haven’t heard any different.
I’ve got my first on Thursday… quite excited! Good prospects as well.
I had my first just before Christmas, I felt that the questioning was all over the place with the Disability wing member asking questions about night time care which were straight off the DLA ‘script’ and totally , and the Medical member entirely misconstruing several aspects of the history—which my client managed to correct quite well. I was lulled into a false sense of security by a series of what I took to be brief pertinent questions by the judge at the end and was quite surprised to find that that the client had lost and didn’t gain any more points over those awarded by DWP. Awaiting writtent reasons and record of proceedings but I think it would be hard for the decision not to challengeable on a number of descriptors. My reading of this experience is that if it is typical the clock has been turned back considerably and the lack of a corpus of reliable caselaw, particulalry on the application of ‘regularly, reliably, repeatedly’ means we will be in for a long period of trench warfare just when the troops required for this (in terms of a body of experience representatives) are more depleted than ever…..
Had three- lost two and won one in December. Much like a DLA tribunal. Last one , client already had six points in Daily Living, was trying to get the other two, and they refused. She did go from 0 points in mobility to 12 points, so got Enhanced rate.Client on crutches and DM stated that she could mobilise for 20 minutes without stopping…...
When I went back in to get decision, tribunal judge stated that he had no idea why she never got the mobility points previously, as it was pretty obvious my client had difficulty,we shared a knowing smile across that table.
Actually thought we might have a chance when we went in as noted the Disability advisor was also on crutches…..
Done one won one.
(emoticon deleted)
Re £2,000 lump sum for those losing HRM on conversion to PIP (E.Shepherd above). I’ve not heard of this. Can you post the source please.
Re £2,000 lump sum for those losing HRM on conversion to PIP (E.Shepherd above). I’ve not heard of this. Can you post the source please.
01/10/13 Lord Sterling, Chairman of Motability board of govs:
“For customers who entered into their first lease agreement with the Scheme before January 2013 and therefore could not have been aware of PIP and the associated risks when they joined (the vast majority of customers), we will provide transitional support of £2,000. For many customers, this will enable them to continue to have mobility by purchasing a used car.
For customers who entered into their first lease agreement with the Scheme with an awareness of PIP being introduced and of the risk that they could lose eligibility following a future PIP reassessment i.e. after January 2013 and up to December 2013, we will nonetheless provide transitional support of £1,000.”
So, it appears to relate to Motability rather than the loss of just high rate mobility. My mistake.
I’ve a client who’s DLA switches to PIP on 20 January and new award has no mobility component so they are losing their Motability Car. I’ve explained what little I know about the £2,000, mostly from the link below:
They will be contacting Motability about returning the car, so I can update this when they find out more
I’ve done five, lost the first three (two of which were very poor cases indeed) but won the others. The Tribunal approached them much in the way that they approach DLA appeals. DWP chose not to attend any of them , which surprised me as I thought there was some instruction for a PO to be sent to the first few appeals to get a feel for them.
Because of the length of time it takes anything to be decided in a PIPS claim the arrears payments have been very large indeed - c.£7k in the two I have won.
Just completed my first.
Presenting Officer in attendance along with a DWP observer who took copious notes.
We argued that the ATOS assessment was very poor with conclusions reached without evidence or reasoning, the PIP2 had been totally ignored, and then the DM and the reviewing DM had just repeated the findings of the assessor, again without interrogation or even the slightest referral to the original PIP2
Our appeal was allowed ( EDLC and EMC ) with the judge making a point to DWP at his disappointment with the assessment process.
The PO spoke to me after the hearing first of all to say that DWP may ask for a SOR and that this would delay payment of the benefit. They may be looking to go to upper tribunal.
When I asked about whether the assessor or even the DM had sight of the PIP2 at all the response was vague, but implying that practice was to rely on the assessor’s report only. There was a clear impression to my client that they were trying to shift the blame for the matter onto a poor assessing process and therefore ATOS. The PO asked us to complain the assessing body, ATOS. I pointed out hat ATOS are subcontracted to the DWP and my issue therefore with DWP
The PO also stated that DWP do not now seek any further evidence from the named medical experts detailed on the PIP2.
Leaves me wondering why we bother with the PIP2 at all
Just had my second tribunal and this time not successful. Decision notice states that the tribunal placed ‘particular reliance on the evidence of the healthcare professional’. Lots of potential issues and reasons requested for poss appeal to UTT. One particular point is that the HCP left the claimant with info as to where she could buy aids to help with dressing, yet didn’t award 2(b) ?!? Upheld by the tribunal. Surely if she was advising on aids they were necessary. Results coming in thick and fast. Had one Mandatory recon where client was previously on HRM/HRC DLA and was awarded SRDL PIP which she then lost on MR to try and get mobility back. So nil award and poss overpayment (another issue in itself). Again full weighting given to the HCP report despite other evidence available.