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IB reassessment debacle
Help!
For people who don’t know I’m working in an acute mental health setting these days…
I’ve a case where it is a really bad idea for one of my clients to go for a medical. Said client has been chucked out of ATOS twice already. The NHS is planning to exercise considerable resources to try and get this person through the door but there will possibly be a scene. It would be entirely preferable for the examination not to be conducted; with the information I have to hand it really shouldn’t need to be!
I have sent plenty evidence to the IB(R) team yet they keep on telling me that ATOS must make the decision! The people who deal with the call backs do not seem to understand that they are in a decision making capacity rather than ATOS. ATOS received considerable information but have simply sent another appointment out. Any pragmatist would understand on reading the information I’ve sent and I suspect ATOS’s vested interests are working against this chap!
I wonder whether anyone has successfully struck up a dialogue with the reassessment team as I’m struggling with the automata I have so far spoken to.
I have successfully avoided my clients going for WCA reviews but that involves speaking to the local team rather than the IB(R) team and that local team understand their role. IB(R) clearly don’t…
I know that sensible people do work for JCP it’s just that I’ve not got their phone numbers any more…
I’d usually be asking for answers onna postcard but I’m in a rush with this one so any help would be appreciated.
Ta!
MP?
MP?
Tory and I’m advised is unlikely to intervene.
Dan - the decision whether to call for appt is for ATOS to make, not DWP. Contact the Atos office that sent out the appointment and explain why appt is not appropriate - confirm in writing as ever!
Make complaint to ATOS customer services at Leeds (and appt. issuing office), marked urgent, enclosing the evidence already sent etc - it really can work! (ATOS complaints team are very pedantic about having a current signed authority).
Our local tory MPs will take up issues like this for constituents - still worth trying - and they need to see case examples of impact on real people.
Sorry if I’m teaching you to suck eggs!
Dan - the decision whether to call for appt is for ATOS to make, not DWP. Contact the Atos office that sent out the appointment and explain why appt is not appropriate - confirm in writing as ever!
My point in part is that the decision on LCW/WRA is for the SoS and he has plenty information to do it but his minions don’t understand that they can…
Complaining to ATOS is a good idea though. I’ve been too focussed on JCP as prodding them on WCA reviews has worked a treat in exceptional cases.
I wonder whether they’ve got an email address?
Cheers Peter.
eta… customer-relations AT atoshealthcare.com is a start.
Too many DWP staff just don’t seem to get it. Yesterday I had a DWP officer of quite long standing say that ATOS decides if people are fit for work. We face a wall of ignorance and an arrogant disbelief among too many DWP staff that any outsider may actually be right and know more about the law and disability/health than they do.
Reg 23 ESA regs confers a discretion whether someone has to have medical (use of word “may” in reg 23(1).
I have found that it is a matter of complaining repeatedly and loudly about inappropriate medicals until someone at DWP sees sense and cancels the examination, trying to get hold of DWP Complaints Resolution Managers can help. Complaining to ATOS can help but one must be aware of their vested interest in having medical examinations as well as the time-honoured clinical “expertise”.
It also could be judicially reviewable - unreasonable exercise of discretion and may also raise possible disability discrimination claims as well possble claims arising out of any harm caused to the person or others as result of the medical taking place despite being warned of the risks.
I have also found that one has to bluntly explain the risk issues in simple English before DWP sit up and take notice.
Agree with Peter - always also worth involving MP, if nothing else so they are aware.
Thanks Neil, I thought there was a.discretion but with other fires on my desk this afternoon haven’t had time to check.
I was discussing with my gaffer whether it might be worth asking the Disability Benefits Consortium to step in… As it would appear it’s happening in more than just sunny Wolverhampton the case grows stronger!
If people have had recent experience of similar problems please would you share them?
Ta…
[ Edited: 8 Mar 2013 at 05:57 pm by Dan_Manville ]...but with other fires on my desk this afternoon haven’t had time to check.
Torching your backlog - I’d not thought of that:)
Should he be found to have failed to attend/submit to a medical, the non-exhaustive list of good cause includes the claimant’s state of health at the relevant time and the nature of any disability the claimant has – Reg 24 ESA Regs.
It’s definitely the DM’s job to consider good cause and some relevant extracts from the DMG are found below:
42266 If a claimant says that they were too ill to attend because of the nature of their disability, the DM should ask for evidence to support this. If the claimant is usually able to get out, for example to the doctor or hospital, good cause should only be accepted if it is unreasonable to expect the claimant to have attended on that occasion. Exceptionally, a claimant may be examined at home if they are unable to travel.
42275 It is possible for the DM to consider that a claimant did not have good cause for failure to submit to an examination because of drunkenness, drug abuse or other problem behaviour. However if the behaviour is a symptom of the stated medical condition such as alcoholism rather than an isolated occurrence, the claimant may have good cause.
42276 A claimant did not attend for medical examination because a consultant advised that attendance was not necessary. It was held that, irrespective of a medical advisor’s opinion as to LCW, a claimant is obliged to abide by the rules for claiming benefit. None of the matters that have to be taken into account when considering good cause applied and the claimant had not shown good cause for failing to attend for medical examination.
42277 A failure to comply with a notice to attend a medical examination will be deliberate, except in cases where the claimant is unable to make a choice between attendance and non-attendance. The question is whether there is good cause for the deliberate failure to comply with the notice.
We have advised front line agencies on a number of occassions recently in cases where ATOS have refused to ‘waive’ an appointment and provide a home visit instead in cases where overwhelming medical evidence about a claimants inability to travel to the assessment centre has been sent to ATOS. Complaint / MP involvement has resolved (eventually).
Whilst it is correct a DM could determine capability without referring the case to ATOS for ‘advice’ through the ‘scruitiny’ process it is extremely difficult to get them to do this in practice and certainly needs an organistaion to point a very large cannon at the Benefit Centre to achieve this (serving notice before action in an extreme case on DWP solicitors office is a good cannon to use!).
...but with other fires on my desk this afternoon haven’t had time to check.
Torching your backlog - I’d not thought of that:)
Should he be found to have failed to attend/submit to a medical, the non-exhaustive list of good cause includes the claimant’s state of health at the relevant time and the nature of any disability the claimant has – Reg 24 ESA Regs.
It’s definitely the DM’s job to consider good cause and some relevant extracts from the DMG are found below:
42266 If a claimant says that they were too ill to attend because of the nature of their disability, i7the DM should ask for evidence to support this. If the claimant is usually able to get out, for example to the doctor or hospital, good cause should only be accepted if it is unreasonable to expect the claimant to have attended on that occasion. Exceptionally, a claimant may be examined at home if they are unable to travel.
42275 It is possible for the DM to consider that a claimant did not have good cause for failure to submit to an examination because of drunkenness, drug abuse or other problem behaviour. However if the behaviour is a symptom of the stated medical condition such as alcoholism rather than an isolated occurrence, the claimant may have good cause.
42276 A claimant did not attend for medical examination because a consultant advised that attendance was not necessary. It was held that, irrespective of a medical advisor’s opinion as to LCW, a claimant is obliged to abide by the rules for claiming benefit. None of the matters that have to be taken into account when considering good cause applied and the claimant had not shown good cause for failing to attend for medical examination.
42277 A failure to comply with a notice to attend a medical examination will be deliberate, except in cases where the claimant is unable to make a choice between attendance and non-attendance. The question is whether there is good cause for the deliberate failure to comply with the notice.
I’d rather not get into an FTA situation if i can avoid it. Three appointments missed will present a steep hill!
It seems we have a similar client with an ongoing complaint. Might present a shortcut to the Chief exec…