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size criteria for mixed age joint tenants
Good morning,
We have had a query about the bedroom tax, where there is a joint tenancy consisting of a mother (aged 82) and daughter (aged under 61). They live in a 3 bedroom property, so therefore potentially face a 14% reduction in HB.
The question is, are they affected by the bedroom tax? Or does the mother’s age make them exempt? All the information I can find about mixed age tenants refers to ‘couples’, which I presume means married/living together/civil partners, not individual (albeit related) adults sharing a tenancy.
Can anyone point me towards any regs or DWP guidance that might help?
Many Thanks
Who is the HB claimant, mother or daughter?
The mother is the claimant.
They should be unaffected in that case, as the size criteria apply to new and existing working age housing benefit claimants in the social rented sector.
This NHF guide is quite handy Making it Fit: a guide to preparing for the social sector size criteria
One thing I hadn’t taken on board until reading this guide was that the 14/25% reduction applies in relation to the rent payments, not the HB payments i.e. someone paying £80 p/w rent, who receives £40 p/w HB and who is deemed to have two spare bedrooms, would see a £20 reduction in their HB (25% of £80).
Are you certain it’s a joint tenancy? If they are joint tenants, and not a couple, they should each be claiming for 50% of the total rent.
Which does in fact raise a separate question about the bedroom tax - where there are 2 joint tenants in a 3 bedroom, and one would be exempt from the bedroom tax, does the other still face a 14% reduction in their 50%, or can the spare bedroom be “allocated” to the exempt party (potentially with relevant adjustments to the %age split of rent liability)
If they are joint tenants wouldn’t they both have to claim HB for half the rent each? If mother claims HB for both of them then I would have thought daughter was a non dep. Latter would be better as then not affected by bedroom tax.
Am I missing something?
Lorraine - our posts crossed. I was just wondering the same - or whether it’s 1/2 of 14%??
[ Edited: 29 Jan 2013 at 01:37 pm by JoW ]I think they are joint tenants, as their tenancy file notes suggest this, but I cannot find a copy of the tenancy agreement to support this. It is possible that there’s been a change in tenancy status over time as the mother has ben a tenant since the 1980s. However, it is only the mothers name linked to the HB claim.
Which does in fact raise a separate question about the bedroom tax - where there are 2 joint tenants in a 3 bedroom, and one would be exempt from the bedroom tax, does the other still face a 14% reduction in their 50%, or can the spare bedroom be “allocated” to the exempt party (potentially with relevant adjustments to the %age split of rent liability)
Unfortunately, under-occupation is calculated by looking at the total bedrooms in the dwelling ( HB Reg B13(2) ) so you can’t avoid the bedroom tax by “allocating” the spare bedroom to an exempt (or non-HB claiming) joint tenant.
There are some worked examples in HB Circular A4/2012 which may be helpful
With reference to the HB Circular this still does not give any mixed age examples in social housing e.g. joint tenants where one is over pension age and the other not (in my case a mother over pension age and daughter 57 in 3 bed property) . If my understanding of HB Reg B13(2) is correct then although the mother will still receive her full 1/2 rent of HB for her 1/2 of the eligible rent then the daughter’s HB will be reduced by 14% of the full eligible rent for the full property rather than 14% of her 1/2 eligible rent?
Ironically then, if an elderly disabled person relies on the care and support of a son/daughter who is under pension age, who either remained in the family home or potentially moved back in to provide support and had the tenancy changed into a joint tenancy they will be worse off than if the tenancy remained solely in the name of the elderly parent, who would be exempt as a single pensioner in a 3 bed property? I will of course be looking at applying for a DHP to cover the shortfall.
Any further suggestions? Thanks
then the daughter’s HB will be reduced by 14% of the full eligible rent for the full property rather than 14% of her 1/2 eligible rent?
That’s not my understanding. I thought it worked like this: take the eligible rent for the whole tenancy B13(2)(a) = 12B without 12B(4) (ie without apportionment between JTs) ; you then apply 14% or 25% reduction (B13(2)(b); and then reapportion the reduced figure between JTs(B13(2)(c)).
The net effect is that the daughter would take a 14% hit on her share of the rent : not 14% of the rent for the whole property.
Hello,
we have had a tenant in this situation - Mum aged 81, daughter working age, joint tenants.
The LA has stated:
as joint tenants the under occ charge is applied between both claimants - i.e 7% each.
As Mum is Pension Credit age she is exempt, so she will continue to get full HB.
The daughter’s HB will be reduced by 7%
Elaine
The LA has stated:
as joint tenants the under occ charge is applied between both claimants - i.e 7% each.
As Mum is Pension Credit age she is exempt, so she will continue to get full HB.
The daughter’s HB will be reduced by 7%Elaine
Unfortunately, I don’t think that the information from the LA is correct (although it would be nice if it turns out to be true)
The application of the bedroom tax to joint tenants seems particularly unfair (as if it’s not bad enough already)
1 single tenant in a 2-bed gets a 14% reduction in their HB.
3 single joint-tenants in a 4-bed property all experience a 14% reduction in their HB (not a third of 14% as you might hope : even though, obviously, they don’t have a spare bedroom *each*) : see Circular A4/2012 for an example.
If one of them happened to be too old for the bedroom tax (or was simply not claiming HB) then that JT would not see a reduction in HB but that would make no difference to the deduction for the others JTs.
So in your example above the daughter’s HB will suffer a 14% reduction (or 7% of the total rent)
Jon, I don’t think I made my post clear….!
The daughter will get 7% reduction to her HB of full eligible rent for property, not just a 7% reduction to her 50% share;
i.e what I meant was if full rent is £100 for 3 bed, 2 joint tenants would be liable for 50% each and their HB would reflect this.
In the case of a pension credit claimant and a working age claimant being joint tenants (and not a couple) their HB would be reduced by 7% (or £7 ) each. Except of course the pension credit claimant is exempt.
Re: your example of 3 joint tenants in a 4 bed; I would expect their HB to be reduced by one third of 14% of the full rent for the property.
hope I have clarified my post!
Does a 7% reduction of the full rent charge not just lead to a 14% reduction of her share in the end?
Mairi
Jon, I don’t think I made my post clear….!
The daughter will get 7% reduction to her HB of full eligible rent for property, not just a 7% reduction to her 50% share;
i.e what I meant was if full rent is £100 for 3 bed, 2 joint tenants would be liable for 50% each and their HB would reflect this.
In the case of a pension credit claimant and a working age claimant being joint tenants (and not a couple) their HB would be reduced by 7% (or £7 ) each. Except of course the pension credit claimant is exempt.Re: your example of 3 joint tenants in a 4 bed; I would expect their HB to be reduced by one third of 14% of the full rent for the property.
hope I have clarified my post!
Hi Elaine - yes, I think we’re in agreement.