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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Work capability issues and ESA  →  Thread

Pain and discomfort ignored for LCW?

Jo_Smith
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Citizens Advice Hillingdon

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I do not assist with WCA appeals often, and I am used to PIP concepts so I was thrown by the assertion from an appeal writer that “activities do not have to be performed without any discomfort or pain and that suffering from pain is not reason in itself to be found to have LCW”
See attached pic.

Is that right? I can see regs referring to “significant discomfort or exhaustion”, but the confident assertion from someone quite high up in the DWP food chain has made me pause and think.

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Va1der
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Welfare Rights Officer with SWAMP Glasgow

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Nope, just nonsense, as you’ve already noted from the regs. This is also reflected in the DMG and ADM.

Jo_Smith
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Thank you. Honestly, how are they allowed to get away with it…

Elliot Kent
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It’s a standard submission and is accurate in its own terms, but it does not mean that pain and discomfort are “ignored” in the WCA.

A claimant might experience some pain whilst undertaking an activity without necessarily being assessed as incapable of doing that activity, but the extent to which they experience pain is still going to be a relevant factor in the tribunal’s assessment of whether they can do that activity reliably, in much the same way as a PIP assessment.

I have a recent and very minor niggling injury in my shoulder. I can ‘raise [my] arm above head height as if to reach for something’ but it causes me a very small amount of pain to do so.  I would not get the points under 6(c) because the pain does not come close to a level where it could fairly be said that the pain prevented me from doing it reliably. If the injury were much more serious and I were in much more pain, then the situation would be different and I might say that the level of pain meant that I could not meaningfully be said to be able to do the activity, or to do so with sufficient regularity.*

You also have to note that there are additional requirements specific to activity 1 which reflect the need for a person to be able to mobilise without “significant discomfort” which do need to be taken into account.

*Ignoring the point that I can do it with my other arm.

Jo_Smith
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Citizens Advice Hillingdon

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OK, thanks for clarifying Elliot. From the DWP’s sub it does look like it would be OK for client to push through pain. I’d say maliciously misleading rather than honest and accurate. But I am reassured that “reliably” concept applies here too.

Mike Hughes
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I’ve always summarised it for claimants as “could you perform this activity repeatedly and safely in a work environment?”. That brings pain nicely into view as well as many other issues.

Mr Finch
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Benefits adviser - Isle of Wight CAB

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The sentence as written is true if taken literally, due to the inclusion of ‘or discomfort’. I would say in general that the diference between discomfort and pain is related to the difference between it being reasonable to endure or not, possibly even once.