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GP “you maybe fit for work” fit note for UC
Hi
A mother has contacted us regarding her son (22 yo) who lives with anxiety and depression. The son has been providing fit notes stating he is not able to work for the last 12 months but the latest fit note from his GP is now stating “you maybe fit for work” and that he might benefit from all of the tick box options. The GP has also made the comment that his patient has been unable to work for a year and that after a long chat the GP feels tht it would be counterproductive to the patient’s mental health and that he needs a work place assessment to determine what work can be done.
The son is now refusing to even speak to the GP as in doing so is making his anxiety worse.
What can he do? The mother has told the surgery to only speak to her now.
I’ve read the updated fit note guidance to GP’s and a lot of it does mention about how work will benefit a patient’s mental health etc etc so I can see where the GP is coming from but how do UC deal with fit notes where the second box is ticked (you maybe fit for work)?
He’s not yet had his WCA.
The GP fit note lasts for 2 weeks.
Any advice would be appreciated.
I think I’d just see this as the GP saying that an assessment is required. The claimant is already awaiting an assessment and until that assessment is completed the claimant should continue to be treated as being unfit for work because no-one really knows. If the DWP complete the assessment process (which they’ll do anyway) they can make their own decision (as they’d do whether the GP said he continued to be unfit for work or not).
So no loss - apart from the claimant and his mother feeling that the GP is now not supporting him, which might not be the case.
Thanks, the difficulty is having to get a fit note every 2 weeks from the GP while waiting for the long past due WCA! Due to speak to the mother on Friday so will get more info as not sure when or if the son has had his UC50.
Thanks, the difficulty is having to get a fit note every 2 weeks from the GP while waiting for the long past due WCA! Due to speak to the mother on Friday so will get more info as not sure when or if the son has had his UC50.
Why every two weeks? Is that the longest the GP will give them for? Doesn’t seem reasonable, is there a different GP who might have a better understanding of the need for fit notes and will issue them for a longer period?
Sadly yes this is the longest :( They’re trying to see an alternative GP.
Nothing useful to add to the problem at hand as such. However, I have had experience in a past role whereby one particular consultant psychiatrist routinely refused to provide med certs of other evidence for clients because he believed being on benefits was bad for their mental health and work would improve their mental state. Some professionals don’t seem to entirely understand the boundaries of what they’re supposed to be doing imo.
I think we’ve probably all come across doctors who are reluctant to provide fit notes, usually because they don’t understand the benefits system.
Other health care professionals can now sign fit notes but as this has only been the case since July I’m not sure how it’s going in practice - anyone any experience of asking, eg, a nurse or pharmacist?
Interesting that the “evidence” that work is good for health cited in the DWP guidance comes from studies commissioned by the DWP.
The forerunner to the DWP was the Department for Social Security formerly the Department for Health and Social Security.
So called fit notes were previously referred to as sick notes.
There is something of an Orwellian Newspeak here but even the evidence cited by the DWP about the supposed benefits to health from work is equivocal .
It seems as if the DWP are starting from the position that ” work is good for you” and then set out to gather “evidence” to support that position. This is far from scientific in that science may start with a hypothesis and then test that hypothesis.
In contrast “work is good for you” has become a quasi religious belief or at least a socio political ideology based on the Victorian notion that idleness is morally reprehensible . Non believers are stigmatised as workshy scroungers just as those who challenged religious belief in the past were persecuted as heretics
The DWP talks of the ” evidence” being “generally accepted” but one only needs to look at the number of days lost through workplace stress to see that the “evidence” is by no means as strong as the DWP make it out to be.
In my view the so called evidence relied on by the DWP is mere opinion and GP’s should not be blindly following it
[ Edited: 25 Aug 2022 at 02:35 pm by Stainsby ]Tory Fraser Nelson interviewed on Radio 4 this morning advocates a return to Cameron/Clegg austerity.
’ Benefits Britain is back’
’ Thérèse Coffey, the Work & Pensions Secretary, is pushing for reform. For example, it’s currently possible to get out of regular appointments with a work adviser if you do just nine hours of work a week. Coffey wants to make this 12 hours – and in this, she deserves support from the rest of the Cabinet. If anything, they should be going further. In a country crying out for workers, this could easily be raised to 24 hours. This is the time for ambition – and for the return of a tough-love policy that Iain Duncan Smith delivered to such striking effect.’
’ The welfare state is obviously a safety net – but how big should it be? Britain now has one of the highest minimum wages in Europe and more job vacancies than at any time since records began. ‘
’ The welfare state is obviously a safety net – but how big should it be? Britain now has one of the highest minimum wages in Europe and more job vacancies than at any time since records began. ‘
Yes that may be, but in contrast, what about a comparison with the cost of living? He missed out that bit.
Where is the evdence that the UK has one of the highest minimum wage in Europe?
Similarly where is the evidence re job vacancies?
There is also the small matter of the post hoc ergo propter hoc falllacy and causation.
The DWP have been getting into a bit of a quandry over their own statistices recently so I would be at the very least sceptical about any unsupported assertions from apologists for the DWP or the so called Centre for Social Justice
Sadly yes this is the longest :( They’re trying to see an alternative GP.
At the heart of this problem, I’m concerned that your client has been getting ‘fit notes’ for a year but still hasn’t had a WCA. How long have they been reporting these to UC?
You might be aware, there’s a long-standing problem with the ‘health and work’ journey that, far from being the automated process DWP pretend it is, it usually involves work coaches manually processing reported fit notes appropriately.
If he’s gone 3 months without a UC50, I’d:
a) complete the pro forma UC50 from gov.uk with him, and
b) escalate this to a ‘customer service’ ops ‘leader’ or someone from the escalation routes manual, for urgent review by the assessor, and
c) consider an official complaint regarding maladministration regarding the severe delay to a potential uplift in this vulnerable, young disabled man’s subsistence-level benefit.
If he’s returned his UC50 and awaiting the WCA outcome, consider b) and c).
I think we’ve probably all come across doctors who are reluctant to provide fit notes, usually because they don’t understand the benefits system.
Other health care professionals can now sign fit notes but as this has only been the case since July I’m not sure how it’s going in practice - anyone any experience of asking, eg, a nurse or pharmacist?
Copy and pasted the latter paragraph on CITA’s fiendface thingy on and got two responses citing the follow examples oncology specialist nurse and Community pharmacist providing fit notes.
Where is the evdence that the UK has one of the highest minimum wage in Europe?
Similarly where is the evidence re job vacancies?
There is also the small matter of the post hoc ergo propter hoc falllacy and causation.
The DWP have been getting into a bit of a quandry over their own statistices recently so I would be at the very least sceptical about any unsupported assertions from apologists for the DWP or the so called Centre for Social Justice
Apparently the minimum wage comparison is right. In the eurozone only Luxembourg has a higher minimum wage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_member_states_by_minimum_wage
But what does any of it really prove? Is there really any evidence that more or tougher activity by work coaches gets more people into employment or gets people working longer hours? There can be lots of reasons why vacancies are high - mismatch of skills, the jobs are in a different part of the country to the people, the cost of working (travel, NI, childcare), all meaning that the financial advantage in working more hours may be minimal or even negative.