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Permitted Work & HB & CTB
Morning…
Can someone tell me if income from permitted work whilst on ESA (IB) is taken into consideration when calculating HB &CTB;? I remember hearing about a change at some point, where earnings from permitted work does not affect HB and CTB.
Also, can a person take up permitted work whilst receiving ESA at assessment rate or would they have to be in WRAG or SG to take up permitted work??
Hope that makes sense!!
Thanks
In relation to the HB/CTB connection, earnings from exempt/permitted work is entirely disregarded. However, a technical heads up - in order for it to be disregarded, HB/CTB legislation expressly makes this dependant upon the Secretary of State being satisfied that such work is in fact exempt work. Why does this matter?
Well, it’s arguable that someone may, in principle, not legally have to inform the DWP that s/he has commenced exempt work as it’s not a change that affects entitlement to ESA (so long as the exempt work critieria are satisfied). But, by definition, if the DWP/SoS isn’t aware of the exempt work, the SoS cannot be satisfied etc. If the SoS isn’t satisfied, then no disregard for HB/CTB.
The relevant legislation is para 10A of Sch 4 to the HB regs and it’s CTB equivalent (“working age”).
Although not an expert on ESA, I am personally aware of people who on the basic assessment rate of ESA who are undertaking exempt work in the full knowledge of the DWP.
Edited to add: Just noted the reference to ESA being income-related. On THAT basis, all of the clmt’s income is disregarded in any case for HB/CTB purposes (earnings in these circumstances being disregarded under para 12 of Sch 4).
[ Edited: 29 Jun 2011 at 12:07 pm by Kevin D ]In relation to the HB/CTB connection, earnings from exempt/permitted work is entirely disregarded. However, a technical heads up - in order for it to be disregarded, HB/CTB legislation expressly makes this dependant upon the Secretary of State being satisfied that such work is in fact exempt work. Why does this matter?
Well, it’s arguable that someone may, in principle, not legally have to inform the DWP that s/he has commenced exempt work as it’s not a change that affects entitlement to ESA (so long as the exempt work critieria are satisfied). But, by definition, if the DWP/SoS isn’t aware of the exempt work, the SoS cannot be satisfied etc. If the SoS isn’t satisfied, then no disregard for HB/CTB.
The relevant legislation is para 10A of Sch 4 to the HB regs and it’s CTB equivalent (“working age”).
Although not an expert on ESA, I am personally aware of people who on the basic assessment rate of ESA who are undertaking exempt work in the full knowledge of the DWP.
Thank you for your response.
Sorry, yes I should have explained in more detail…I am looking at Permitted Work Higher Limit – up to 52 weeks or unlimited if in SG (is this the same as exempt work?). I am going on the basis that the claimant does inform the DWP and/or LA because it is change in circumstances, although I know the claimant does not need permission to take up Permitted Work.
I was on a course a while ago and I am sure that I was told that from April 2011 claimants that are receiving Contributory ESA can do permitted work and earn up to £95.00 p/w & HB & CTB would not be affected?? However, I do not remember this being mentioned for claimants receiving Income Based ESA and doing permitted work??
Can a person on Income Based ESA, earn up to £95.00 whilst doing permitted work without it affecting entitlement to ESA & HB & CTB? Or am I asking a silly question and the answer is no?? Sorry having a silly day today?
Can anyone else confirm if Permitted Work can be undertaken whilst receiving ESA at assessment rate? (client failed WCA and has appealed, hence assessment rate).
Can a person on Income Based ESA, earn up to £95.00 whilst doing permitted work without it affecting entitlement to ESA & HB & CTB? Or am I asking a silly question and the answer is no?? Sorry having a silly day today?
Yes - para 12 of Sch 4. Even if ESA was contribution based, para 10A would then kick in instead. Either way, so long as the SoS is satisfied it is exempt work, earnings from that are entirely disregarded for HB/CTB - para 10A came into effect from April 2010.
I don’t blame you for asking for further confirmation on your other point about whether exempt work is allowed on the assessment rate of ESA but, without going into the background, I am actually 99% sure exempt work can be undertaken whilst on the assessment rate of ESA, even where a WCA has been failed and then appealed. As a starting point, regs 40 & 45 of the ESA regs may assist.
The reason I use the term “exempt work” rather than “permitted work” is because the term “exempt work” is what appears in the ESA regs.
As far as I’m aware Permitted Work rules only apply to people who are in receipt of Employment and Support Allowance income based or contribution based (Work related group and Support group) but I’m no ESA expert either.
Just seen Kevin’s post
[ Edited: 29 Jun 2011 at 01:48 pm by chacha ]Can a person on Income Based ESA, earn up to £95.00 whilst doing permitted work without it affecting entitlement to ESA & HB & CTB? Or am I asking a silly question and the answer is no?? Sorry having a silly day today?
Yes - para 12 of Sch 4. Even if ESA was contribution based, para 10A would then kick in instead. Either way, so long as the SoS is satisfied it is exempt work, earnings from that are entirely disregarded for HB/CTB - para 10A came into effect from April 2010.
I don’t blame you for asking for further confirmation on your other point about whether exempt work is allowed on the assessment rate of ESA but, without going into the background, I am actually 99% sure exempt work can be undertaken whilst on the assessment rate of ESA, even where a WCA has been failed and then appealed. As a starting point, regs 40 & 45 of the ESA regs may assist.
The reason I use the term “exempt work” rather than “permitted work” is because the term “exempt work” is what appears in the ESA regs.
Excellent, thanks so much for your expert advice Kevin, well appreciated! :o)
As far as I’m aware Permitted Work rules only apply to people who are in receipt of Employment and Support Allowance income based or contribution based (Work related group and Support group) but I’m no ESA expert either.
Humm…yes this is what I am thinking…that a person has to be placed in the SG or WRAG before entering permitted work??
As far as I’m aware Permitted Work rules only apply to people who are in receipt of Employment and Support Allowance income based or contribution based (Work related group and Support group) but I’m no ESA expert either.
Humm…yes this is what I am thinking…that a person has to be placed in the SG or WRAG before entering permitted work??
Cookie, to my knowledge, there is nothing that requires a clmt must be in a WRG / SG in order to undertake exempt work. If you are happy to post your email addy (leave spaces between the characters to try and avoid bot harvesting), I will be happy to email explaining why I dare to say “99% sure” despite not otherwise being an expert in ESA.
As far as I’m aware Permitted Work rules only apply to people who are in receipt of Employment and Support Allowance income based or contribution based (Work related group and Support group) but I’m no ESA expert either.
Humm…yes this is what I am thinking…that a person has to be placed in the SG or WRAG before entering permitted work??
Cookie, to my knowledge, there is nothing that requires a clmt must be in a WRG / SG in order to undertake exempt work. If you are happy to post your email addy (leave spaces between the characters to try and avoid bot harvesting), I will be happy to email explaining why I dare to say “99% sure” despite not otherwise being an expert in ESA.
Sorry I’m not disbelieving you…just doubt in my own mind.
I would post my e-mail address but I’m scared now! What the hell is “bot harvesting”..Ooo no sounds way too technical for me, I may get abducted by aliens or something lol…On a serious note if you are 99% sure that is good enough for me and I’ll take your word for it.
Thank you so much ;o)
Cookie, to my knowledge, there is nothing that requires a clmt must be in a WRG / SG in order to undertake exempt work. If you are happy to post your email addy (leave spaces between the characters to try and avoid bot harvesting), I will be happy to email explaining why I dare to say “99% sure” despite not otherwise being an expert in ESA.
Well that’s good enough for me too, just like to know why though…..
Cookie, to my knowledge, there is nothing that requires a clmt must be in a WRG / SG in order to undertake exempt work. If you are happy to post your email addy (leave spaces between the characters to try and avoid bot harvesting), I will be happy to email explaining why I dare to say “99% sure” despite not otherwise being an expert in ESA.
Well that’s good enough for me too, just like to know why though…..
Yes…I am rather intrigued too!!
I would post my e-mail address but I’m scared now! What the hell is “bot harvesting”..Ooo no sounds way too technical for me, I may get abducted by aliens or something
WoooOOOOHHHhhooo. Erm, right…
Bot harvesting: In simple terms, if an email addy is visible on a website and is open to being viewed by all and sundry (such as this forum), there is software that is expressly designed to hunt the web for email addies that are visible in this way and to collect them for one or more databases. Once found, an email addy can be abused by spammers (don’t you just love the emails about physical and/or pharmaceutical generated enhancements, “genuine” cheap Rolexes, hot dates and so on?). Such databases change hands, sometimes for money, resulting in yet another deluge of unwanted e-rubbish. Once your email addy is out there, it’s out there for good and that’s when spam filters have to be employed. No matter how good a spam filter is, some will always slip through and, worse, some perfectly genuine emails will end up being snaffled by the spam filter - so you end up spending valuable time double checking emails that have been diverted into the spam box should not have been treated as spam. Why spam? Because enough people click on the links and shell out….
Normally, disguising an email addy by putting in dots/spaces/false characters between the genuine characters of a legit email addy will be enough to see off the vast majoroty of bots - it’s easier and quicker to go looking for those addies that haven’t been disguised.
Example: cookie 9 9 x s @ e ma i l h e a v e n . c o m OR: c/o/o/k/i/e/9/9/x/s/@/e/i/l/h/e/a/v/e/n/./c/o/m
A bit time consuming but generally worth it.
I would post my e-mail address but I’m scared now! What the hell is “bot harvesting”..Ooo no sounds way too technical for me, I may get abducted by aliens or something
WoooOOOOHHHhhooo. Erm, right…
Bot harvesting: In simple terms, if an email addy is visible on a website and is open to being viewed by all and sundry (such as this forum), there is software that is expressly designed to hunt the web for email addies that are visible in this way and to collect them for one or more databases. Once found, an email addy can be abused by spammers (don’t you just love the emails about physical and/or pharmaceutical generated enhancements, “genuine” cheap Rolexes, hot dates and so on?). Such databases change hands, sometimes for money, resulting in yet another deluge of unwanted e-rubbish. Once your email addy is out there, it’s out there for good and that’s when spam filters have to be employed. No matter how good a spam filter is, some will always slip through and, worse, some perfectly genuine emails will end up being snaffled by the spam filter - so you end up spending valuable time double checking emails that have been diverted into the spam box should not have been treated as spam. Why spam? Because enough people click on the links and shell out….
Normally, disguising an email addy by putting in dots/spaces/false characters between the genuine characters of a legit email addy will be enough to see off the vast majoroty of bots - it’s easier and quicker to go looking for those addies that haven’t been disguised.
Example: cookie 9 9 x s @ e ma i l h e a v e n . c o m OR: c/o/o/k/i/e/9/9/x/s/@/e/i/l/h/e/a/v/e/n/./c/o/m
A bit time consuming but generally worth it.
Wow, I must have been asleep for the last few years (although as you may have gathered I’m not the most technical person in the world!!)
Ok let me try this…although I am leaving work now until Monday, so will not see your e-mail till then…here goes…n/i/c/o/l/a/@/h/a/v/e/r/i/n/g/c/a/b/./o/r/g/./u/k
Phew I made it to the other side alive!!! :o)
Checked CPAG guide (p185) and no mention of having to be in WRAG to do permitted work.
It merely says that the 52 week limit for doing permitted work doesnt apply to people in the support group.
If anyone can clear this up it would be a great help as a client of mine thinking of doing permitted work but been waiting 6 months for his WCA (thanks Atos!), so no lcfw/lcfwa determination yet.
Thanks
Kevin has already given the relevant ESA Regs, 40, 44 and 45. Reg 45 merely outlines what is exempt work. Reg 40(1), however, is the key. And if you read all three regs together there is, to my mind, no power to read in the kind of restrictive approach that rules out assessment phase ESA. In this instance the regs are simple enough to bear their plain and obvious meaning.
Thanks for the reply nevip.