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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Universal credit migration  →  Thread

Managed migration pilot

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Andrew Dutton
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I am watching right now. Just had to explain to colleagues why I am shouting.

The discussion on UC fraud was interesting too. Not sure the SoS was especially well-briefed. Glad she is going to look at the (very aggressive) letter sent to people who have reported fraud.

Daphne
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Yes I assumed it was one of your clients when Ruth George was pushing it ;)

Jon (CHDCA)
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Can I just check something about the TP rules? When working out the legacy amount, the new reg 53 seems to say tax credits is based on full entitlement, rather than what might be actually in payment, i.e. it does not take into account any overpayment adjustment/recovery. Is that correct?

Charles
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Jon (CHDCA) - 24 July 2019 11:48 AM

Can I just check something about the TP rules? When working out the legacy amount, the new reg 53 seems to say tax credits is based on full entitlement, rather than what might be actually in payment, i.e. it does not take into account any overpayment adjustment/recovery. Is that correct?

Yes, that’s correct.

Jon (CHDCA)
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Thanks Charles. So, for someone on both tax credits and HB, it seems they will end up getting higher TP in the event that they have a tax credit overpayment that’s being recovered (given the effect of HB reg 40(6)) ...

Charles
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That’s a good point. Although it’s worth realising that such a claimant will have lost out on HB in the period of the TC overpayment. Normally, that is cancelled out when the TC award is reduced and HB goes higher. However, if they’re transferred to UC they won’t make that back from HB. But like you say, they’ll get higher TP, and that could last for a long time, more than making up for the loss of HB.

It may even be worthwhile for people on TC and HB to underestimate income for tax credits, and then give a more accurate estimate upon receiving a migration notice!

This is the opposite of another trick claimant’s have always been able to do: overestimate their income for tax credits, therefore eventually getting a lump sum for the underpayment, which doesn’t affect the HB award.

EDIT TO ADD: When the draft regs were originally published by the SSAC last year, I compiled a list of cases where the TP rules throw up interesting results. I’ll have to try dig it up…

Daphne
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Written answer yesterday tells us absolutely nothing about the progress of the pilot and pointedly refuses to say how many have actually migrated -

The Move to Universal Credit pilot commenced, as scheduled, in the area served by Harrogate Jobcentre in July 2019. The goal of the pilot is to learn as much as possible about how to safely move people from legacy benefits onto Universal Credit. As a result, we will increase numbers as slowly and gradually as necessary.

Update in the Spring apparently

Dan_Manville
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Daphne - 14 January 2020 12:34 PM

Update in the Spring apparently

Being as there are only 2.5k or so Social Security Claimants I wonder whether they can even find the requisiste 10k population in Harrogate alone.

Daphne
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It’s up to 10,000 in the pilot which doesn’t have to be only in Harrogate - but I don’t think they are anywhere near approaching those numbers yet - or even 1% of it. At NAWRA in December Sue Royston told us that the CAB in Harrogate has not seen a single migrated claimant…

Va1der
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Do you think DWP will handpick candidates for migration? Might make it easy for themselves at the outset by picking straightforward claims. Work out the IT etc before risking hiccups.

Daphne
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My understanding is that in the pilot they’re starting with people who are already regulars at the jobcentre - ie jobseekers. Which will be more straightforward…

I guess it’s possible they might do the same in full migration…

Peter Turville
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So which is moving faster, the pilot, a snail or a glacier?

Are any bookmakers offering odds on whether UC will be full rolled out by 2023 - perhaps we could all put in a shilling and have a collective punt?

Andrew Dutton
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Peter Turville - 14 January 2020 04:22 PM

So which is moving faster, the pilot, a snail or a glacier?

Are any bookmakers offering odds on whether UC will be full rolled out by 2023 - perhaps we could all put in a shilling and have a collective punt?

I’ll go for 2030, just as I retire.

The pilot will of course be lauded as a brilliant success. There will then follow a disastrous ‘roll-out’ as DWP runs in to all the problems it has avoided thinking about. Then a ‘reset’. Then another one. The problems will all be explained away as someone else’s fault and ‘gloom-mongers and naysayers’ will be berated for their unhelpful attitude. Then there will be another disaster, another reset, and so on, potentially forever.

Peter Turville
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Andrew Dutton - 14 January 2020 04:45 PM

I’ll go for 2030, just as I retire.

The pilot will of course be lauded as a brilliant success. There will then follow a disastrous ‘roll-out’ as DWP runs in to all the problems it has avoided thinking about. Then a ‘reset’. Then another one. The problems will all be explained away as someone else’s fault and ‘gloom-mongers and naysayers’ will be berated for their unhelpful attitude. Then there will be another disaster, another reset, and so on, potentially forever.

By 2030 there will have been a whole new wave of welfare reform underway to introduce benefits fit for the second quarter of the C21 (sound familiar?).

But I will be well retired by then - leave my RP alone!

BC Welfare Rights
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Andrew Dutton - 14 January 2020 04:45 PM

I’ll go for 2030, just as I retire.

 

That depends on whether Sir IDS’ ghost continues to stalk the corridors of Whitehall and keeps you working until you are 75.

Just a cheery thought for a stormy night.