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Date of claim under Reg 10

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Pete at CAB
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Reg10 (1) (b) of the UC C&P regs says that the date of the claim can be the date that the claimant notified DWP of their intention to make the claim provided that the actual claim is made electronically by DWP themselves or by ‘a person providing services to the Secretary of State which is provided for the purpose of enabling that person to make a claim’.

Both local Councils and Citizens Advice have, at various times had contracts (or at least funding) from DWP to deliver help to claim and I was wondering if the current Cit A service would come under the definition of a ‘person providing services to the SoS’

Any thoughts or experiences gratefully received

Pete

     
NAI
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We have been thinking the same thing. Our Help to Claim project lead is going to take this up with CitA who may not accept that we act on behalf of the Secretary of State as per Reg 10.

I believe that we are going to try to get the local Jobcentre to stamp the “Help to claim” leaflets that they give to clients when sending them to us.

I would certainly give it a try to get the date of first contact with the DWP as the UC date of claim.

     
Daphne
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I would say definitely providing services to SoS - the DWP has a contract with CItA to help people claim - I think that completely meets the definition under reg 10 - if anyone has any problems with that please do let me know and I will take it up via stakeholders

     
Mike Burke
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I have just been through this with the DWP partnership manager here in Cornwall.
DWP state that s.26 applies and that they have received legal advice re the same. I have raised this with Linnet Thornton, our HTC account manager at National CitA. She has said that the DWP position is that which applies and that they are campaigning at national level about this. It is my view that Reg 10 does apply to us but we are where we are.

     
Jo_Smith
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Yep, DWP told us that Reg 10 does not apply to Citizens Advice. I believe CitA are intending to challenge it. In the meantime it is hit and miss really. But since when consistency was the hallmark of UC…

     
Andrew Dutton
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Is it worth asking DWP if CitA is not ‘a person providing services to the Secretary of State which is provided for the purpose of enabling that person to make a claim’ then who would be, and by what definition?

Also, what is Reg 10(1)(b) for, if Help To Claim is not providing services to the Secretary of State which is provided for the purpose of enabling that person to make a claim’ ?

Would they be willing to share their legal advice?

     
Daphne
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Mike Burke - 08 May 2019 02:03 PM

I have just been through this with the DWP partnership manager here in Cornwall.
DWP state that s.26 applies and that they have received legal advice re the same. I have raised this with Linnet Thornton, our HTC account manager at National CitA. She has said that the DWP position is that which applies and that they are campaigning at national level about this. It is my view that Reg 10 does apply to us but we are where we are.

I assume you mean regulation 26 Mike? I will take this up via stakeholders as well, and maybe Amber Rudd and copy in Frank Field - it’s ridiculous…

     
Mike Burke
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Yes I do. Thanks for the spot Daphne.

     
NAI
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In our bureau, I am going to look for a suitable case and take it to tribunal. I am certain that a tribunal judge looking at the service delivered against a Service Level Agreement and a contract will be of the view that we are acting on behalf of the SOS in delivering Help to Claim. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it must be a duck! grin

     
NAI
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And Regulation 26 is a red herring or some other fish that the duck might like. grin grin

     
Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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For those who might have missed them have re-attached part of the FOI response and grant agreement posted by a regular contributor re HTC.

Edited for typo (not for the first time).

      [ Edited: 8 May 2019 at 04:26 pm by Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District ]

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Peter Turville
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Well done CA for entering to provide the service for DWP without considering / confirming their status for the purpose of Reg. 10 which would seem a fundamental consideration for any such service.

I wonder if they are advising claimants that Reg 10 may not apply to CA and to seek alternative support / make the claim themself if CA cannot offer same day support / appointment when required?

     
NAI
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Peter Turville - 08 May 2019 04:14 PM

Well done CA for entering to provide the service for DWP without considering / confirming their status for the purpose of Reg. 10 which would seem a fundamental consideration for any such service.

I wonder if they are advising claimants that Reg 10 may not apply to CA and to seek alternative support / make the claim themself if CA cannot offer same day support / appointment when required?

I have to admit it might have been a good idea to sort this out earlier.

     
Daphne
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Daphne - 08 May 2019 03:18 PM

I will take this up via stakeholders as well, and maybe Amber Rudd and copy in Frank Field - it’s ridiculous…

No sooner said than done…

     

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Mr Finch
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It’s hard to see what possible purpose the provision could have if it didn’t apply to the very scheme it precisely describes. We act for our clients but we’re certainly providing a service to the Secretary of State.

     
Mike Burke
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Having looked at the Grant Agreement I do not think it affects our position re backdating. The only section which would have affected it would be at Term 31 - No Partnership or Agency. We are neither in my view.
If we are acting ‘on behalf of’ DWP then it could be construed that we are Agents. The Grant Agreement specifically rules out that relationship. I do not think that we are. We provide a service in support of DWP rather than acting on behalf of. Therefore we are providing a service to the Secretary of State. hence R.10 should apply.
My two cents.