× Search rightsnet
Search options

Where

Benefit

Jurisdiction

Jurisdiction

From

to

Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Work capability issues and ESA  →  Thread

ESA claim moving from Northern Ireland to England

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
forum member

Information and advice resources - Age UK

Send message

Total Posts: 3224

Joined: 7 January 2016

As it says above, we’ve had enquiry about someone moving from NI to England with an ESA claim. Has anyone done this in practice and what did you need to do?

I’ve absolutely no experience of this and CPAG MIgrants Handbook suggests this should all happen pretty seamlessly but ESA section here insisting NI ESA claim is closed down and new ESA1 form completed to start GB claim.

Any thoughts gratefully received as ever.

BC Welfare Rights
forum member

The Brunswick Centre, Kirklees & Calderdale

Send message

Total Posts: 1366

Joined: 22 July 2013

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
forum member

Information and advice resources - Age UK

Send message

Total Posts: 3224

Joined: 7 January 2016

Yes thanks, found that yesterday.

A very helpful official at DWP has shared the following extract from the internal staff guidance, in case anyone else has one of these case. Essentially, should be treated as change of circumstances.

Claimants moving between NI and GB

1. Before 6 April 2016, ESA was not included in the Reciprocal Arrangements (RA) with Northern Ireland (NI). This meant ESA claimants moving between the jurisdictions had to make a new claim for benefit from their new location, rather than report it as a straightforward change of circumstances. This could leave them significantly disadvantaged as a consequence.
2. In the interim extra-statutory payments could be made, where appropriate, to claimants who move between the two jurisdictions, preventing them being worse off in their new jurisdiction than they would have been had they stayed in their old jurisdiction.
3. The cross-Ministerial agreements were formalised in a new RA which came into effect on 6 April 2016. ESA is now included in the RA. The effect of this is that claimants who move between Great Britain (GB) and NI on or after 6 April 2016 no longer have to rely on ex-stat payments.

GB to NI actions
ESA telephony action for GB to NI claims
4. Claimants will use the following phone number to change their circumstances and start the process of moving to NI.
Telephone: 0800 587 1377
Text number: 0800 328 3419 for deaf and hard of hearing users only.
Step Action
1 Advise the claimant to close their ESA claim in GB
2 Complete COA1 (link is external) and create a handover, pass to the appropriate ESA maintenance section for completion
ESA maintenance action for GB to NI claims
5.
Step Action
1 Consider the claimants ‘change of circumstances (link is external)’ to determine if an ESA3 or further information is required i.e. moving in with or splitting from a partner, SDP entitlement, capital, housing costs etc.
2 Where housing costs (link is external) are applicable on the claim email the ESA Mortgage Team
3 Ensure the ESA claim has been closed in GB
4 Delete the ESA claim from JSAPS and maintained clerically until the claim can be rebuilt
5 Process the change of address by taking into account any changes and reassess the claimant’s benefit
6 Refer the claim to be TTC’d (link is external) clearly marking any changes required for the rebuild

NI to GB actions
6. Claimants will notify the change of circumstances by telephone to the ESA BC
7. The Telephone Team Benefits Delivery Officer (BDO) should try to deal with the call where possible. If this cannot be done within the allowed time the enquiry must be passed on to the BC Claims Maintenance team by e-mail handoff.
8. If evidence is required to process the change the Telephone Team BDO should:
• inform the claimant to close their ESA claim in NI
• record the details in JSAPS Notepad,
• set a user case control for the BC Claims Maintenance Team BDO,
• consider suspension if the change will reduce or terminate benefit, and
• end the call and update CAM Contact History
9. Follow the change of circumstance instructions to complete the change of address action.

Further consideration
10. Make sure GP details and payment details are correct.
11. If the claimant was entitled to SDP or EDP due to DLA/PIP, make sure these have been removed as there is no RA between DLA/PIP and the claimant will need to make a new claim to DLA/PIP.
12. Advise the claimant, in a recorded call, to make sure DLA/PIP are notified to close their claim.
13. Consider housing costs, did the claimant own the property in GB, did they sell it etc. consider any capital.

DDP
forum member

The Terrence Higgins Trust

Send message

Total Posts: 102

Joined: 7 September 2010

I’m sure this is straightforward but for ESA purposes only is a change of address in Great Britain (excluding N. Ireland) simply a change of circumstances that one notifies to the DWP which will allow for an on going claim of ESA and will not trigger a new claim for UC. There is no SDP involved.

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
forum member

Information and advice resources - Age UK

Send message

Total Posts: 3224

Joined: 7 January 2016

DDP - 22 July 2019 02:51 PM

I’m sure this is straightforward but for ESA purposes only is a change of address in Great Britain (excluding N. Ireland) simply a change of circumstances that one notifies to the DWP which will allow for an on going claim of ESA and will not trigger a new claim for UC. There is no SDP involved.

Yes I think so.

Elliot Kent
forum member

Shelter

Send message

Total Posts: 3150

Joined: 14 July 2014

DDP - 22 July 2019 02:51 PM

I’m sure this is straightforward but for ESA purposes only is a change of address in Great Britain (excluding N. Ireland) simply a change of circumstances that one notifies to the DWP which will allow for an on going claim of ESA and will not trigger a new claim for UC. There is no SDP involved.

The effect of the reciprocal agreement (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/287/contents/made) is that acts etc. done by the relevant authorities in one country are treated in exactly the same way as equivalent acts etc. done by the relevant authorities in the other country - with legislation being modified to the necessary extent.

So the moment the claimant comes over the border carrying his award of ESA from the Department of Communities, it is treated in exactly the same way as though it were an award of ESA made in England by the DWP. Which means that the claimant could stay off UC and carry on getting ESA if they wished.

Obviously if we are talking about a renter, then there is the distinct issue that they probably aren’t going to be able to make a new claim for HB so they may feel forced into UC in any case.

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
forum member

Information and advice resources - Age UK

Send message

Total Posts: 3224

Joined: 7 January 2016

Elliot Kent - 22 July 2019 07:58 PM
DDP - 22 July 2019 02:51 PM

I’m sure this is straightforward but for ESA purposes only is a change of address in Great Britain (excluding N. Ireland) simply a change of circumstances that one notifies to the DWP which will allow for an on going claim of ESA and will not trigger a new claim for UC. There is no SDP involved.

The effect of the reciprocal agreement (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/287/contents/made) is that acts etc. done by the relevant authorities in one country are treated in exactly the same way as equivalent acts etc. done by the relevant authorities in the other country - with legislation being modified to the necessary extent.

So the moment the claimant comes over the border carrying his award of ESA from the Department of Communities, it is treated in exactly the same way as though it were an award of ESA made in England by the DWP. Which means that the claimant could stay off UC and carry on getting ESA if they wished.

Obviously if we are talking about a renter, then there is the distinct issue that they probably aren’t going to be able to make a new claim for HB so they may feel forced into UC in any case.

Yes, HB point very important, I knew there was something nagging me on this one.

DDP
forum member

The Terrence Higgins Trust

Send message

Total Posts: 102

Joined: 7 September 2010

I should probably not have made this post in this thread as it has nothing to do with the more from N. Ireland to England (as I stated). However, to be clear, if a person remains in the same local authority area and changes address he can continue to retain entitlement to both HB & ESA rather than have to claim UC (in Great Britain).

If he moves out of the LA area(in Great Britain) then he would have to make a new UC claim for his housing costs etc. so ending his ESA award. Is that correct?

Elliot Kent
forum member

Shelter

Send message

Total Posts: 3150

Joined: 14 July 2014

DDP - 23 July 2019 01:23 PM

I should probably not have made this post in this thread as it has nothing to do with the more from N. Ireland to England (as I stated).

I think that we can be forgiven for missing that given the focus of the thread…

DDP - 23 July 2019 01:23 PM

However, to be clear, if a person remains in the same local authority area and changes address he can continue to retain entitlement to both HB & ESA rather than have to claim UC (in Great Britain).

If he moves out of the LA area(in Great Britain) then he would have to make a new UC claim for his housing costs etc. so ending his ESA award. Is that correct?

This is another situation which is entirely resolved by reference to the golden rules which are:

(1) A new claim for IS/irESA/ibJSA/HB/Tax Credits cannot be made (except one of the vanishingly small number of exceptions applies)
(2) Everything else continues as before
(3) UC can be claimed by anyone at any time but it is always the claimant’s choice whether to claim

If someone getting ESA and HB moves within a local authority area, then ESA just carries on in payment and HB is just a change in circumstances within their existing claim. (1) does not apply - there is no new claim for anything involved so it just carries on as before - see (2). The claimant could still choose to claim UC but there is no obvious reason for them to.

If someone getting ESA and HB moves from one local authority to another, then their HB claim with Local Authority 1 ends and a new claim for HB in Local Authority 2 is impossible (see (1)). ESA still carries on as before, as the situation doesn’t involve a new claim (see (2)). So the claimant has a choice between either staying just on ESA or making a claim for UC which would include housing costs.

 

WillH
forum member

Locum adviser - CPAG in Scotland

Send message

Total Posts: 370

Joined: 17 June 2010

For info, in relation to the guidance quoted above - it looks out of date to me as regards PIP.

I think PIP is also covered by the reciprocal agreement - see the explanatory note (para 7.5):

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/287/pdfs/uksiem_20160287_en.pdf

If the guidance means that a claimant should also inform N Ireland of the move so that PIP can go through the same process, fair enough - but they don’t have to reclaim, I think.

I hope that’s right as currently have a client on irESA & PIP, & have advised based on my understanding that PIP should be subject to a similar process (seems also to be the view in CPAG Migrants handbook).

NB client currently doesn’t need to claim for housing costs & we are hopeful that if she did, she would be in a situation where SDP had become payable - so if she does need to claim for help with these, it will be HB.