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UC full service NDD’s son and grandson

Andrew Hansard
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Advice Team, CVTRA (Castle Vale, Birmingham)

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Client is sole council tenant, renting a three bedroom property, unfit for work and claiming UC in a full service area

Client lives with her son - working age and in work and his child aged 13

UC have reduced HE - on the journal they have made two replies to query from the same decision maker within 28 minutes which contradict each other, the first says one non dependent deduction and one un-occupied bedroom and the second states two NDD

My understanding is they should both be treated as non-dependents but there should be no NDD for the 13 year old because they are under 21 - is that correct? Are they/should they be treating them as having an un-occupied bedroom i.e. 14% reduction? Is there any way of challenging that or is it just a matter of claiming DHP?

Any thoughts appreciated

ClairemHodgson
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Solicitor, SC Law, Harrow

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a child can’t be a non-dependent for these purposes.  and is in any event entitled to his own room separate from both his father and his gran.

HB Anorak
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You are right, there should be no bedroom tax and only one HCC. See para 9 of UC Schedule 4: the child is a non dependant and is therefore part of the “extended benefit unit”. In particular the child is not excluded from the definition of non dep by subpara (2)(g) as someone in the EBU is responsible for him/her. This entitles the claimant to a bedroom for the child under para 10. But there is no HCC in respect of the child by virtue of para 16(2)(a).

So, to recap, that is full rent minus one HCC (aka NDD).

ClairemHodgson
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HB Anorak - 14 November 2018 11:35 PM

: the child is a non dependant and is therefore part of the “extended benefit unit”.

my understanding was that a child can’t be a non dep?

so e.g disability rights says:
“When your housing costs amount is worked out, a deduction of £72.16 is made for each ‘non-dependant’ living in your home. A non-dependant is someone who normally lives in your home on a non-commercial basis. Typically, an adult son or daughter will be considered to be a non-dependant.

The following people do not count as non-dependants:

your partner;
any child or qualifying young person;
a tenant, sub-tenant or joint tenant; or
a resident landlord.”

Andrew Hansard
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HB Anorak - 14 November 2018 11:35 PM

You are right, there should be no bedroom tax and only one HCC. See para 9 of UC Schedule 4: the child is a non dependant and is therefore part of the “extended benefit unit”. In particular the child is not excluded from the definition of non dep by subpara (2)(g) as someone in the EBU is responsible for him/her. This entitles the claimant to a bedroom for the child under para 10. But there is no HCC in respect of the child by virtue of para 16(2)(a).

So, to recap, that is full rent minus one HCC (aka NDD).

I just had a look at the regs you quoted and underneath UC schedule 4 para 10 states this:

Number of bedrooms to which a renter is entitled

10.—(1) A renter is entitled to one bedroom for each of the following categories of persons in their extended benefit unit— (c) a non-dependant who is not a child;

Does the fact the grandchild is a child non-dependent mean that UC treats the bedroom as unoccupied?

 

Elliot Kent
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Andrew Hansard - 15 November 2018 12:10 PM
HB Anorak - 14 November 2018 11:35 PM

You are right, there should be no bedroom tax and only one HCC. See para 9 of UC Schedule 4: the child is a non dependant and is therefore part of the “extended benefit unit”. In particular the child is not excluded from the definition of non dep by subpara (2)(g) as someone in the EBU is responsible for him/her. This entitles the claimant to a bedroom for the child under para 10. But there is no HCC in respect of the child by virtue of para 16(2)(a).

So, to recap, that is full rent minus one HCC (aka NDD).

I just had a look at the regs you quoted and underneath UC schedule 4 para 10 states this:

Number of bedrooms to which a renter is entitled

10.—(1) A renter is entitled to one bedroom for each of the following categories of persons in their extended benefit unit— (c) a non-dependant who is not a child;

Does the fact the grandchild is a child non-dependent mean that UC treats the bedroom as unoccupied?

The claimant gets a bedroom under 10(1)(a) “The renter”, their son gets a bedroom under 10(1)(c) “a non-dependant who is not a child” and their grandson gets a bedroom under 10(1)(f) “any other child”.

HB Anorak
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ClairemHodgson - 15 November 2018 08:30 AM
HB Anorak - 14 November 2018 11:35 PM

: the child is a non dependant and is therefore part of the “extended benefit unit”.

my understanding was that a child can’t be a non dep?

so e.g disability rights says:
“When your housing costs amount is worked out, a deduction of £72.16 is made for each ‘non-dependant’ living in your home. A non-dependant is someone who normally lives in your home on a non-commercial basis. Typically, an adult son or daughter will be considered to be a non-dependant.

The following people do not count as non-dependants:

your partner;
any child or qualifying young person;
a tenant, sub-tenant or joint tenant; or
a resident landlord.”

There are non dependants; and there are non dependants who attract an HCC. The latter is a subset of the former. All non deps go into the bedroom mix, but only those aged 21+ attract HCCs.