Incontinence PIP decisions

Hi, I am assisting a client with a PIP appeal, client has bleeding from the rectum and I wondered if this would constitute incontinence or if this just applies to leakage from the bladder or bowel (or both)? Has anyone argued this point in appeal?
Thanks

howards1 - 15 May 2018 04:02 PM

Hi, I am assisting a client with a PIP appeal, client has bleeding from the rectum and I wondered if this would constitute incontinence or if this just applies to leakage from the bladder or bowel (or both)? Has anyone argued this point in appeal?
Thanks

it is, surely, neither.  the rules presuppose one is incontinent of urine or faeces, depending on the orifice.

which isn’t to say that, if the bleeding is continuous, you can’t argue that it should be treated “as if” it were an incontinence.with a need for pads

so i’d certainly be arguing that under the managing continence points.

hope his treating team can sort this out, poor client…

Activity 5 relates to managing toilet needs or incontinence.. Both “toilet needs” and “manag[ing] incontinence” are defined terms under Schedule 1 of the Social Security (Personal Independence Payment) Regulations 2013:

“manage incontinence” means manage involuntary evacuation of the bowel or bladder, including use a collecting device or self-catheterisation, and clean oneself afterwards;

“toilet needs” means–
(a) getting on and off an unadapted toilet;
(b) evacuating the bladder and bowel; and
(c) cleaning oneself afterwards;

I can’t see that your client’s particular difficulties engage either definition I’m afraid. That being the case, I don’t think there’s any argument for points here.

I have had clients that have had similar problems but have got so freaked out by it that they avoid going to the toilet, leading to “accidents”. This can lead to a prompting / supervisory need or a “reliably” argument.

Elliot Kent - 15 May 2018 08:25 PM

Activity 5 relates to managing toilet needs or incontinence.. Both “toilet needs” and “manag[ing] incontinence” are defined terms under Schedule 1 of the Social Security (Personal Independence Payment) Regulations 2013:

“manage incontinence” means manage involuntary evacuation of the bowel or bladder, including use a collecting device or self-catheterisation, and clean oneself afterwards;

“toilet needs” means–
(a) getting on and off an unadapted toilet;
(b) evacuating the bladder and bowel; and
(c) cleaning oneself afterwards;

I can’t see that your client’s particular difficulties engage either definition I’m afraid. That being the case, I don’t think there’s any argument for points here.

 

involuntary evacuation of the bowel in that it is continually bleeding out (evacuation) and coming from the bowel;  i see the definition doesn’t say that it should be involuntary evacuation of fecal matter.  Hey, i’m a lawyer twisting words!