full service - new claim by appointee required

I’ve not personally dealt with this issue but from the guidance, etc…

Peter Turville - 30 October 2017 02:06 PM

For example, if they can provide a seperate email address etc. can they then in practice get through the online process to the point of being able to submit?

If they have all the info needed I can’t see why not. The online application is relatively simple to complete (unless there is something specific you think may be a problem?).

There may be an issue in proving the clients identity (lack of suitable documents) and claimant would not be capable of attending an appointment at Jobcentre for ID/initial claim interview.

I presume that an appointee can answer the biographical security questions on claimant’s behalf to establish identity. I have seen it suggested elsewhere that a Support Worker has been asked to do this by the DWP. There is guidance referring to home visits as a reasonable adaption where claimant unable to attend Jobcentre. For example, para 69 of the attached.

Are we correct to advise there is no practical work arounds that could get the claim made if the claimant cannot give oral / written consent at required points in the claim process?

Again, I can’t see why the appointee can’t give this consent. An appointee can’t agree a Claimant Commitment but the guidance attached by Henri at post 6 here https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/5246/ states that the need for one can be waived if necessary.

In practice it is probably all going to be hard work and inconsistently dealt with but it seems theoretically possible at least. There is the issue of identifying the payments into a corporate appointees account but this may be resolveable through matching the payment record on the UC account with the amounts and dates received into the bank account. Easier the smaller the number of claimants, granted.

Agree with everything Billy has said - the claim will probably have to be dealt with clerically at the moment though as we’ve been told that the digital payments don’t go with a reference number so don’t work for corporate appointees - so they are making all corporate appointee payments clerically.

Daphne / Billy

Sorry I may not have made myself clear - the organisation is not yet the appointee. DWP say they can only be made appointee once the claim has been made. This is the reply we have now received from DWP:

“I have checked the guidance on UC Full Service and the procedure is generally the same as other benefits,  ...... we checked one of our databases and it appears that the claimant would have to put in a claim in the same way as happens currently before we would be able to process the appointee action.

I assume that currently the organisation you are working with already have agents who help claimants fill out claim forms? If so then the process would be the same – once the claim is made on line they would need to take appointee action as normal and then our visiting team would get involved etc.

I think that this is something we should flag up with the project because it would make sense for the identification of possible appointee action should be flagged up at the start of the claim/log in process on the Full Service

We’ll make further enquiries about this and get back to you as I think it is an important area to ensure the process supports our claimants”

Our concern is how can a third party make the claim including setting up claimants passwords etc. if claimant cannot do this themselves / provide authority (and the legal and insurance implication of 3rd party setting up and recording the passwords etc before they are appointed).

Is there a process by which 3rd party (including power of attourney / Court of Protection) can make a clerical claim without any kind of consent from the claimant?

We have now received this response from DWP:

“..... the process as such would be that the Corporate body would need to apply to be appointee in the same way as they do now and the visiting team would do their action, and then once the appointeeship was agreed the claim would be made and a request for backdating could be made.”

However it remains unclear how this can be done in practice where there is no existing claim for UC (or any other DWP benefit). Can this be done by a call to the UC contact centre or visit to the Jobcentre by the prospective corporate appointee?

Has any one already tried this approach?

Why not ask for a home visit to the claimant (and a representative of the prospective appointee) from the UC home visiting service to make the UC claim and verify ID at the same time.

If they need to make a separate visit to assess the appointeeship, after the claim is on the system so be it.

I think in exceptional circumstances services are helping people set up usernames and passwords because as identified, in practical terms, the only way to make a claim as there is no clerical process.  Organisations are protecting themselves through detailed record keeping and storing info securely and in some cases I think making local DWP contacts aware they have done this for specific cases and why.

It may be the only way in practical terms granted but in legal terms, it’s extremely dubious in my opinion and unnecessarilly puts them in a quite invidious position. This potentially opens up issues around consent, confidentiality, data protection, legal indemnity insurance (should things go awry) and so on.

Peter Turville - 01 November 2017 04:57 PM

We have now received this response from DWP:

“..... the process as such would be that the Corporate body would need to apply to be appointee in the same way as they do now and the visiting team would do their action, and then once the appointeeship was agreed the claim would be made and a request for backdating could be made.”

I would be surprised if they would backdate in those circumstances without a fight. None of the scenarios from the legislation seem to apply.

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 02 November 2017 10:32 AM

It may be the only way in practical terms granted but in legal terms, it’s extremely dubious in my opinion and unnecessarilly puts them in a quite invidious position. This potentially opens up issues around consent, confidentiality, data protection, legal indemnity insurance (should things go awry) and so on.

I’m sure you are right Paul. 

And it is for DWP to resolve this dilemma.

Peter Turville - 01 November 2017 04:57 PM

We have now received this response from DWP:

“..... the process as such would be that the Corporate body would need to apply to be appointee in the same way as they do now and the visiting team would do their action, and then once the appointeeship was agreed the claim would be made and a request for backdating could be made.”

However it remains unclear how this can be done in practice where there is no existing claim for UC (or any other DWP benefit). Can this be done by a call to the UC contact centre or visit to the Jobcentre by the prospective corporate appointee?

Has any one already tried this approach?

in most cases you would assume dla/pip/aa would apply where appointee needed so could be done that way but doesn’t get around the fact you cant claim uc as the appointee until you are the appointee.

SarahJBatty - 02 November 2017 11:32 AM

I’m sure you are right Paul. 

And it is for DWP to resolve this dilemma.

You’re completely correct that DWP should be sorting this as a priority but I can’t say that I’m holding my breath Sarah….

Thank you all for your further responses. I have yet to receive a further response from DWP locally about how in practice a corporate body can make an application for appointteeship for UC before a claim is/can be made.

I know that this is a national issue that DWP have yet to address (dispair!) - just adding the Oxon experience to the list!

Our client is (part of) a statutory body and has now contacted DWP direct. We have encouraged them to take it up at the highest level internally and with DWP!

The organisation now has a second claimant in the same situation.