“Work Programme has one fatal flaw - there isn’t any work”

Ah, the trickle down effect.  The Spirit Level would counter that type of argument.  Under new Labour wealth increased but so did inequality.

Tom H - 15 November 2011 10:37 AM

Ah, the trickle down effect.  The Spirit Level would counter that type of argument.  Under new Labour wealth increased but so did inequality.

I wasn’t suggesting trickle down but a direct quantification of value which can then be shared, either individually or averaged.

As for the Spirit Level; it’s increasingly looking uncertain statistically to professionals - see http://projects.rsablogs.org.uk/2010/07/statistical-cat-fight/ etc.

My direct quantification of value is different to your direct quantification of value :-)

I’m aware of the criticisms of the Spirit Level.  The authors were so taken aback by the attacks on them that I believe they have added a new preface to the 2nd edition (I have the first ed) addresing all of those criticisms.  But any objectors have a chance of putting their questions to Kate Pickett when she attends NAWRA in York next month.

Hmm…. Not sure Gareth. Creating wealth for who? From my own experience when I was signing on i decided to volunteer for a while, which led to me current job but this should not be mandatory. This can be the thin end of the wedge once it is assumed that hordes of people will work for nothing. The Tories have always voted against the minimum wage and this may be a ay of circumventing it through the back door. Big society? Hmm…

With regards to the thorny issue of youth unemployment, there’s a very interesting analysis from the Financial Times as to why this seems to be so high (and getting higher).

It looks at a range of factors including immigration from Eastern Europe, the extension of NMW, etc but finds that the most persuasive explanation appears to be the shift in focus of job centres from young people (under the New Deal for Young People) to lone parents and those claiming IB.

Estimates are that figures to be released tomorrow will show youth unemployment reaching its highest levels since records began in 1992.

Tom H - 15 November 2011 02:34 AM

dbcwru, whilst I disagree with you i think you’re brave for expressing views which you must know will not be popular on here.  I felt your statements were sweeping in the same way as Paul did.  But I think it’s evident from your posts that you don’t think all benefit claimants are good-for-nothings etc.

There’s just a couple of other points.  The skilled manual workers in the shipyards did strike over sometimes trivial matters, another uncomfortable fact. But they were, as I was reminded recently, allowed in their breaks to have snowball fights with the asbestos they worked with.  So they were striking and dying.

Finally, despite you having done very well and shown resilience in your own employment history, it never ceases to amaze me why people don’t question just why it has to be like that.  As if we’re a bunch of animals stuck in a pit and only the strongest will get out.  What separates us from other animals is our ability to think and plan things differently.

Nicely written Tom. :-D Me brave-Ive been haranged before on here and will again no doubt :-D. No, I wouldnt do my job if I thought all benefit claimants were good-for-nothings.
I do think there are many well paid dangerous jobs that people will continue to do because they are well paid whatever the health risks.

As for being animals stuck in a pit, unfortunately we will as a worldly culture remain where the dominant governments want us to be. The Ethopians are still starving 30 years later merely due to the politics in the country. The slave culture is still prevelant throughout the world and the rich and poor are get wider apart-we only have to look at Mumbai.  I dont know the answer, In the past I have personally written to the Secretary of State with my scathing opinion on the medical testing process and the welfare system-having lived and breathed it since 1987, but it didnt make a dent i’m afraid.

I know one thing though that employers like people who are hard workers and even though you might not have exams, experience etc, if you can show that you are willing to make an effort (by doing some work experience or vol work) you are more likely to get employment. I remember seeing an episode of the fairy jobmother in Middlesbrough and she got the lady of the couple doing unpaid work experience on the beauty counter in Boots because they didnt have any paid work at that time-because if she hadnt of done it she wouldnt have had any work experience at all.