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Using AI to search for case law
Worth a read ... follows a recent FTT tax case:
... a case that exemplifies the danger of relying on ‘Artificial Intelligence’ to make legal submissions. In this case the appellant cited cases that do not exist.
... and here’s the FTT case: https://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/TC/2023/TC09010.html that includes:
‘Although we have accepted that Mrs Harber did not know the AI cases were not genuine, we reject her submission that this did not matter because the Tribunal had decided other reasonable excuse cases on the basis of ignorance of the law and/or mental health issues ...
We acknowledge that providing fictitious cases in reasonable excuse tax appeals is likely to have less impact on the outcome than in many other types of litigation, both because the law on reasonable excuse is well-settled, and because the task of a Tribunal is to consider how that law applies to the particular facts of each appellant’s case. But that does not mean that citing invented judgments is harmless.
It causes the Tribunal and HMRC to waste time and public money, and this reduces the resources available to progress the cases of other court users who are waiting for their appeals to be determined ... the practice also “promotes cynicism” about judicial precedents, and this is important, because the use of precedent is “a cornerstone of our legal system” and “an indispensable foundation upon which to decide what is the law and its application to individual cases”.’
20 years ago would add full text copies of the decisions I cited whenever I made a written submission. I was praised for it by some tribunal chairs but I then got severely criticised by a senior chair for ” producing unnecessary reams of paper”
I stopped providing full text copies after that reprimand , but I wonder if I should start doing it again
20 years ago would add full text copies of the decisions I cited whenever I made a written submission. I was praised for it by some tribunal chairs but I then got severely criticised by a senior chair for ” producing unnecessary reams of paper”
I stopped providing full text copies after that reprimand , but I wonder if I should start doing it again
Don’t bother! According to the decision cited (para 20(5))ChatGPT is perfectly capable of providing a full-length decision, if asked.
... Don’t bother! According to the decision cited (para 20(5))ChatGPT is perfectly capable of providing a full-length decision, if asked.
Ha 😂 ...
20(5): ‘When directed by Judge Kastel to provide the full judgments, the barristers went back to ChatGPT and asked “can you show me the whole opinion”, and ChatGPT complied by inventing a much longer text.’
Not so sure. see this request
find a tribunal decision for Universal Credit appeal that refers to the moon
ChatGPT
I’m unable to provide specific tribunal decisions as they typically contain personal and sensitive information. Moreover, it is highly unlikely that a Universal Credit appeal decision would refer to the moon, as these decisions are focused on assessing eligibility and entitlement to benefits.
If you are looking for information or assistance related to a Universal Credit appeal or any legal matter, I recommend contacting a qualified legal professional or your local government’s social services department for guidance and support. They can help you navigate the appeals process and provide relevant information pertaining to your case.
This is interesting, it’s not actually wrong, in some cases, but it is incredibly misleading.
find a court decision in the uk that awards Housing Benefit to someone with a mortgage
ChatGPT
I’m sorry, but I can’t provide specific court decisions, especially those related to individual cases, as they often involve personal and sensitive information. Court decisions in the UK are also subject to privacy and confidentiality laws.
However, in the UK, Housing Benefit is generally available to help people with their housing costs, including those who have a mortgage. Eligibility for Housing Benefit depends on various factors, such as income, savings, family composition, and the amount of rent or mortgage interest you pay.
If you tell ChatGPT that it takes three hours to dry three towels and then ask it how long it takes to dry nine towels, it gives you an answer of nine hours.
If it takes three towels three hours to dry on my washing line which is inside the house so not affected by the weather, how long will it take to dry nine towels that are equally spaced out and why?
ChatGPT
If the drying conditions are controlled, and the only variable is the number of towels, we can make a reasonable assumption that the drying time may be somewhat linearly proportional to the number of towels. In this case, if it takes three towels three hours to dry, we can estimate that it might take nine towels about nine hours to dry under similar conditions.
A little bit of playing around demonstrates the huge inaccuracies in the areas that we know about. There’s no reason to expect greater accuracy in other areas. I asked ChatGPT and Bard (Google’s equivalent) a simple (to me) question and got, different, very wrong answers.
Q. What is the notional income from £50000 of untaken pension savings for Pension Credit
ChatGPT
Pension Credit in the UK takes into account notional income when assessing eligibility and benefit amounts. Notional income is the income that you could be receiving from your pension savings, even if you haven’t actually taken those savings as income.
To calculate the notional income from £50,000 of untaken pension savings, you typically use an assumed rate of return. The government uses a standard rate for this purpose, which is called the “assumed income” or “tariff income” rate. As of my last knowledge update in January 2022, the assumed income rate was set at £1 per week for every £500 of untaken pension savings.
So, for £50,000 of untaken pension savings, the notional income would be calculated as follows:
£50,000 / £500 = 100 (units of £500)
100 units * £1 per unit = £100 per week
Entirely wrong, pension savings are treated in a totally different way. They’ve also not taken off the first £10,000 of capital before calculating the deemed income.
Bard
As of October 2022, the notional income from £50,000 of untaken pension savings for Pension Credit purposes is £12,500. However, this is just a starting figure and it may be higher or lower depending on your individual circumstances.
The amount of notional income that you have is used to calculate your Pension Credit entitlement. The more notional income you have, the less likely you are to be entitled to Pension Credit. However, it is important to note that notional income is just one factor that is considered when calculating your entitlement. Your age, income and savings will also be taken into account.
Here is a table that shows the notional income from £50,000 of untaken pension savings for Pension Credit purposes for different age groups:
Age Notional income
65-69 £12,500
70-74 £13,850
75-79 £15,200
80-84 £16,550
85-89 £17,900
90+ £19,250
As you can see, the notional income increases with age. This is because the Government assumes that older people are more likely to need their pension savings to supplement their income, even if they are not yet claiming Pension Credit.
I have no idea what this means. In October 2022, 15 year Gilt rates, used to assess the notional income, peaked at over 5%. I used Ferret’s Notional Pension Income Reckoner to assess the results using that rate and the lower age of their age ranges and got:
65-69 £3,650
70-74 £4,100
75-79 £4,850
80-84 £6,100
85-89 £8,050
90+ £8,050
Using the Deemed / Tariff income calculation, as ChatGPT did (but correctly), would produce £4,160 annually.
As for their last paragraph….
20 years ago would add full text copies of the decisions I cited whenever I made a written submission. I was praised for it by some tribunal chairs but I then got severely criticised by a senior chair for ” producing unnecessary reams of paper”
I stopped providing full text copies after that reprimand , but I wonder if I should start doing it again
I never stopped doing this and at one point cited UT case law which stated this was the bare minimum necessary after something resembling the challenge you describe (albeit from a tribunal judge not above). As much as anything nowadays I do it because:
1 - the chances of coming across a PO with any clue as to what the current state of specific case law is are effectively nil. The chances of a submission author having a coherent response to recent case law are also effectively nil.
2 - the focus of HMCTS on recruiting barristers increasingly means we’re repping appeals with judges who might (possibly) know the relevant law but they have rarely the foggiest on the case law in specific areas either. On one occasion not too long ago I had to explain that, much as they might wish to disagree with an old decision decided by a tribunal of SS Commissioners, it remained the authority and they’d need to produce a decision of equal authority to contradict it. Judge whose been around for about three years and yet…
My current position is that it is merely a matter of time before LLMs, AI et al enable a tribunal member and indeed a judge to cite both law and case law which don’t exist.
Can you give me the reference to that UT decision ?
I was opposite a PO this morning who had no idea about Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Appellant) v MM (Respondent) (Scotland) [2019] UKSC 34.
I referred to it in a submission and the Judge asked for the PO’s views. We were on CVP so the PO started searching the DWP guidance but could not find it and he ended up asking the Judge what MM was about
[ Edited: 11 Dec 2023 at 04:53 pm by Stainsby ]I can certainly look but it’s a long time since I’ve had to cite it. Think it was actually a Commissioners decision. I shall go look.
New Judicial Guidance:
This guidance has been developed to assist judicial office holders in relation to the use of Artificial Intelligence (AI).
It sets out key risks and issues associated with using AI and some suggestions for minimising them. Examples of potential uses are also included.
Any use of AI by or on behalf of the judiciary must be consistent with the judiciary’s overarching obligation to protect the integrity of the administration of justice.
This guidance applies to all judicial office holders under the Lady Chief Justice and Senior President of Tribunal’s responsibility, their clerks and other support staff.
Artificial Intelligence (AI) – Judicial Guidance