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The end of crisis loans.
“.... Britain is virtually bankrupt…..”
There is no virtual. Fact. Britain is bankrupt. Like most Western/advanced economies we are trading on the future.
The future is heavily skewed against being oil dependent economies. Peak oil was hit in Jan 2009. The oild price at present is relatively low. Fuel costs are high. They will not go down.
For whatever reason, political, greed, naivety, stupidity whatever the reason there is a massive debt problem coupled with a crippled economy.
Whatever you think I believe politically, I can promise you are far, far from where I actually am.
Frankly, I’m dealing in the real world and not a hypothetical one. Taxes on the rich are not the solution in a nutshell.
No government of whatever political party (or coalition) for the forseeable future is going to spend more on the present SF or its relacement.
The present SF is pretty useless as there are far more people in need than it helps.
I would like to see positive thoughts to come out of a consultation as oppossed to negativity and I guess from the use of latin used you are saying the argument I’m making is absurd.
Its not.
The argument made against seems to be that there is choice (and dignity) if you have the cash in your hand.
Sadly there is little choice. Money from the SF for new washer or table = limited choice as you’re limited in purchasing power. You may be forced to buy a budget item and have little or no assistance from the supplier.
Having an open mind, there is room for the use and development of local centres providing quality furniture and white goods for little or no cost and support whether that’s building and delivering furniture, maintenance or installation.
On some things however, there is a matter of dignity. Such as clothing or bedding. The state should not dictate what you should wear or whether you should sleep in bri-nylon or brushed cotton and possibly silk
[ Edited: 25 Feb 2011 at 02:12 pm by John Birks ]Rather interestingly the poor, give to charity by far the highest portion of their income/goods.
Your middle classes tend to recycle via ebay.
So its sort of self funding…............
John
It’s obvious we are not going to agree on this so there is not much point in debating it further. We are probably not going to agree either on the real state of the economy. However, from your comments I would be interested to know just where you think I am politically and how you know you are very, very far from it?
Regards
Paul
Nevip, I actually I said “Whatever you think I believe politically, I can promise you are far, far from where I actually am.”
I was making the point about me rather than you. Apologies if this isn’t clear.
None of what I have written is political. Although sometimes it feels like I’m saying the wrong thing.
I would like to see more people getting more help which surely isn’t a bad thing?.
[ Edited: 25 Feb 2011 at 02:49 pm by John Birks ]Rather interestingly the poor, give to charity by far the highest portion of their income/goods.
Your middle classes tend to recycle via ebay.
So its sort of self funding…............
The most sensible comment today :-)
John
I wasn’t implying that you were somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun. Forgive me if that’s how it seemed. I’ve known your posts from old and I suspect that we’re not that far apart politically. That’s why I was surprised that you thought we might be. And although we may honestly disagree on particular issues its nice to debate with you.
Mind you, you should try sharing an office with him.
LOL
LOL
John
I wasn’t implying that you were somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun. Forgive me if that’s how it seemed. I’ve known your posts from old and I suspect that we’re not that far apart politically. That’s why I was surprised that you thought we might be. And although we may honestly disagree on particular issues its nice to debate with you.
No probs.
which goes back to my original point of why the idea of second hand furniture is so offensive?
If it’s from the seventies maybe it a crime against fashion?
The concept of a crisis loan is that you need something urgently, otherwise it is not a crisis.
If the system is run by a charity that charity may not have the required item available at the time it is required (cooker, microwave etc)
By eliminating the cash option you eliminate the choice to buy anything, new or second hand.
In addition by puting these decisions down to Local Authority level this will create a variation in criteria of who gets what based upon the political policy of whoever won the local election.
As for dignity, in a crisis you take whatever is on offer, afterwards the crisis is reduced down to a problem. Problems have solutions and (dignified) choices.
Nick
The government’s proposals are for community care grants as well as crisis loans so my arguments were addressing CCG’s and not crisis loans.
When I see these debates I know I’ve been in this trade for far too long. My benefit memory has just flashed back to the 70s - prior to the social fund. Then some second hand shops were contracted to provide items requested by the benefit officer. It was very often rubbish and they made a lot of money. Nuff said
Of course in days gone by you didnt have to worry about CFCs or fire resistant furnishing coverings. Still no doubt the powers that be would say it could be written into a Spec?
all of this presuposes that the availability of “second hand” anything either stays the same or increases. There are many factors that will combine to mean, that many folk that might have replaced working “white goods” will wait until the thing breaks. If that is the case then the supply of second hand goods will reduce.
Many charities with high street shops trade in second hand furniture and electrical goods. They are cheaper but you still need money to buy them. If those that give to those charities redirect their giving to charities that will find second hand stuff a home, then the charities that rely on those donations for resale will see their income squeezed, with less capacity to deliver on the big society.
The second hand and charity sector is not immune from what is happening in the wider economy.
This is obviously very complex but second hand is clearly a commodity whether its eBay, Charity Shop or Antique Shop, just how much is probably demonstrated by this article and the fact that the unscrupulous know when Age Concern are going to pick up your doorstep donations and often get there first :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jan/30/clothes-charity-recycling-banks
Hello Julian. As a policy officer do you think your LA would be keen to take this on, given you are presumably going to lose HB administration.