I've got a copy of the new LiMA manual, version 3 and I was wondering whether I'm allowed to forward it or whether I'd be hung for treason.

Do you know where Rightsnet stands re distributing Crown Copyright material, and will I be shot if I send you a copy?

hi dan -

send it through and we'll take a look ....

.... rightsnet@lasa.org.uk

cheers - shawn

Wed 18-Mar-09 12:54 PM by Tony Bowman

Take a look at this page re crown copyright on OPSI's website, which has a fair bit of information.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/advice/crown-copyright/copyright-guidance/index

Most crown copyright material has a statement about copyright and usually (those times where I've needed to look into it) restrictions are limited to referencing the source and quoting it properly.

Wed 18-Mar-09 07:53 PM by Dan_manville

Shawn, I've not the facilities for scanning, have you a snail mail addy I could use?

Some of us still do paper you know

hi dan -

yes, address @ http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/contact.shtml

however, assuming it's a large doc, scanning may not be the best way forward ... alternative could be an FOI requets for an electronic version?

cheers - shawn

We've always been told by DWP that the reason they can't share LIMA with anyone is down to commercial confidentiality and that it is actually the property of Atos Origin. Don't know how or whether this has any effect on Crown Copyright or your decision whether to publish but just so you're aware.

And we were told when DLA claim process became computerized that the software would be jointly owned with IBM, so maybe that's where the problem lies?

Funny Paul, because the covering letter I was sent implies it's the property of DWP... Now my days of conspiracy theories are behind me but...

The truth may well be out there.

The truth certainly is out there, Dan. Taken behind the garbage cans, shot in the back of the head and dumped in the local canal!

here we go (cheers dan) ....

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/pdfs/Lima_Nov_2005.pdf

comes with the following -

'This guide is listed on the 'DWP Information Finder' and has been produced as part of a programme for health care professionals (HCPs) to carry out medical assessments as approved HCPs. All HCPs undertaking these medical assessments must be registered medical or nursing practitioners who in addition, have undergone training in disability assessment medicine and more specific training. The training includes theory training in a classroom setting, supervised practical training, and a demonstration of understanding as assessed by quality audit. These documents must be read with the understanding that, as experienced medical or nursing practitioners, the HCPs will have detailed knowledge of the principles and practice of diagnostic techniques, and therefore such information is not contained in these documents. In addition, these are not stand-alone documents, and form only part of the training and written documentation that a HCP receives. As disability assessment is a practical occupation, much of the guidance also involves verbal information and coaching. Thus, although the documents may be of interest to non-medical readers, it must be remembered that some of the information may not be readily understood without background medical knowledge and an awareness of the other training and guidance given to HCPs.

"The information supplied to you continues to be protected by the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. You are free to use it for your own purposes, including any non-commercial research you are doing and for the purposes of new reporting. Any other re-use, for example commercial publication, would require the permission of the copyright holder. Most documents supplied by Department for Work and Pensions will have been produced by government officials and will be Crown Copyright. You can find these details on the arrangements for re-using Crown Copyright on HMSO Online.'

While looking for something else, I've come across an answer to a Parliamentary question by Janet Dean, MP for Burton, who asked who owns the LiMA software.

Mr. Jim Murphy: The Logic integrated Medical Assessment (LiMA) computer program is used by Atos Origin Medical Services and supports doctors carrying out disability assessments on behalf of the Department for Work and Pensions. The DWP hold copyright and intellectual property rights over the program and license a third party—Atos Origin Medical Services—to use, customise, distribute, incorporate, market, maintain, support, sell and sub-license LiMA in return for payment of a royalty to the DWP.

Hansard HC vol 459 col 1691W (2 May 2007).