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Top Policy topic #892

Subject: "Fraud and error in the benefits system" First topic | Last topic
Tony Bowman
                              

Welfare Rights Advisor, Reading Community Welfare Rights Unit
Member since
25th Nov 2004

Fraud and error in the benefits system
Fri 16-May-08 11:08 AM

If you've seen todays Rightsnet news story about the levels of fraud and error in the benefits system, it's worth taking a look at the detailed statistics in the DWP's report - which is here: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/fem/fem_oct06_sep07.pdf

There are quite a few interesting points of note.

The total level of estimated fraud for October 06 to September 07, across IS, JSA, HB and PC is £580m.

The total level of estimated error is twice that of fraud at £1.15bn; of which half of that (£560m) is official error.

So this means - in a very simplistic way of course - that official error costs the taxpayer the same amount as fraud.

The NAO also found that £1.1bn was underpaid, but interestingly:

<i>"The underpayment estimates only cover recipients who are getting less than they are entitled to, and do not include those who are entitled to benefits but who do not apply, or whose applications to benefit are incorrectly rejected."</i>

It is disappointing that the last group in this statement are not included in official error estimates. We can only guess at how this would alter the official error statistics.

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: underpayments and stuff..., jj, 16th May 2008, #1
RE: underpayments and stuff...correction, jj, 16th May 2008, #2
      RE: underpayments and stuff...correction, Tony Bowman, 20th May 2008, #3
           RE: underpayments and stuff...correction, nevip, 20th May 2008, #4
                RE: underpayments and stuff...correction, Tony Bowman, 20th May 2008, #5
                     RE: underpayments and stuff...correction, jj, 20th May 2008, #6
                          RE: underpayments and stuff...correction, whitegates, 05th Jun 2008, #7
                               RE: underpayments and stuff...correction, jj, 05th Jun 2008, #8
                                    RE: underpayments and stuff...correction, nevip, 05th Jun 2008, #9
                                         RE: underpayments and stuff...correction, Paul_Treloar_, 05th Jun 2008, #10

jj
                              

welfare rights adviser, saltley & nechells law centre birmingham
Member since
21st Jan 2004

RE: underpayments and stuff...
Fri 16-May-08 02:39 PM

i was wondering if anyone had found time to look at these tables critically? : )
we know that there are long standing problems with fraud and error statistics, and we know that the subject has been a major spin area. the tables cover several years, rely heavily on estimated figures, and do not appear to me to reflect any effects of the major upheavals in the structural reorganisation throughourt the department which i would expect to see impacting on the figures, knowing from experience that CMS and local office closures have had a major impact on er... the customer experience. sorry to say i feel extremely sceptical regarding the usefulness of these figures to anyone, despite the huge amount of work which has obviously gone into their production. there's a heading for underpayments due to fraud, (table 2) and in that oxymoronic concept there is an ocean of lessons to be learned...

isn't it time to come out of the tail-spin and look seriously at the issue of underpayments?

the statistics in and of themselves are not the major issue, although if they are unreliable and policy is based on them it will be bad policy, and there's another story... the significance is in what the statistics represent. there are good grounds to believe the amount and prevalence of underpayment is understated, possibly massively understated - eg not counting benefit disallowed incorrectly is a major omission, and then there are the unrecorded cases where a claim is incorrectly deterred before it is made...

with all the brouhaha about fraud, underpayments have been the neglected area - even by Parliament, as far as i have been able to see. underpayments result in injustices suffered by the individual, and social injustice if the problems are widespread and not isolated, and not quickly put right. perhaps justice is an abstract concept, but the the effects of injustice on real peoples' lives have consequences.

i've felt, rightly or wrongly, that the reason for neglect of underpayment figures has come from the notion that only losses to the public purse matter. if so, this is a profoundly serious error and misunderstanding on the part of the government... all emphasis on 'security' and none on 'social' is a recipe for dysfunction, imo, as well as sending a message that the government cares only about stopping people who are not entitled to payments and doesn't care about making sure those who are entitled, get their entitlement. the ultimate disrespect message, received loud and clear...

I suppose the question is, where do we go from here? do we want to correct it? deny it? ignore it and keep quiet about it? who is 'we' anyway?

  

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jj
                              

welfare rights adviser, saltley & nechells law centre birmingham
Member since
21st Jan 2004

RE: underpayments and stuff...correction
Fri 16-May-08 05:49 PM

sorry - typo. meant to say table 10

  

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Tony Bowman
                              

Welfare Rights Advisor, Reading Community Welfare Rights Unit
Member since
25th Nov 2004

RE: underpayments and stuff...correction
Tue 20-May-08 12:15 PM

Reported in the media today with exactly the same spin that JJ alludes to. Very frustrating and disheartening...

  

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nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: underpayments and stuff...correction
Tue 20-May-08 12:24 PM

Tue 20-May-08 12:31 PM by shawn

(Edited to shorten link)

And then there’s this sort of thing.

Have a look at the benefits uprating table in the article at the following link

  

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Tony Bowman
                              

Welfare Rights Advisor, Reading Community Welfare Rights Unit
Member since
25th Nov 2004

RE: underpayments and stuff...correction
Tue 20-May-08 03:25 PM

I've seen similiar figures in the past in respect of earnings disregards - equally as startling!

  

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jj
                              

welfare rights adviser, saltley & nechells law centre birmingham
Member since
21st Jan 2004

RE: underpayments and stuff...correction
Tue 20-May-08 05:16 PM

i hadn't seen that article before, thanks paul. powerful stuff, and very resonant, but are we still watching this space? it's kinda very frustrating...paul has remarked more than once to the effect that things won't change until people decide to change them for themselves, and i agree, as always : )
it seems that our various funding regimes keep us on a short leash and running on the spot like hamsters...which is no way to treat border collies...yes, time to coalesce...

  

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whitegates
                              

welfare rights officer, east dunbartonshire council
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: underpayments and stuff...correction
Thu 05-Jun-08 12:18 PM

From page 2 of the link:

" Interpretation of results

The estimates presented in this report are based on the analysis of reviews of random samples drawn from benefit caseloads..."


I'll be happy to learn that I have misunderstood this, but it seems to be saying that what counts as fraud in sample cases is decided by the reviewers and not by a court of law.

  

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jj
                              

welfare rights adviser, saltley & nechells law centre birmingham
Member since
21st Jan 2004

RE: underpayments and stuff...correction
Thu 05-Jun-08 02:29 PM

and paragraph 11 -
>>>In future, this series will monitor progress against the indicator “Proportion of benefit expenditure overpaid or underpaid due to fraud and error”>>>

'fraud and error' have been paired for so long they have become a meaningless categorisation - 'fraud'nerror' . somebody counts the fraud'nerrors, and sticks the numbers on a table, for ministers, who are then enlightened..oops, slipped into a little fantasy there...

isn't it time fraudnerror were divorced?

  

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nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: underpayments and stuff...correction
Thu 05-Jun-08 02:41 PM

They had a trial separation once only for the DWP to decide that they couldn't live without each other. Bless!!

  

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Paul_Treloar_
                              

Director of Policy and Services, Disability Alliance, London
Member since
15th Sep 2006

RE: underpayments and stuff...correction
Thu 05-Jun-08 02:48 PM

Those darned "living together as..." rules strike again......

  

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