Discussion archive

Top Incapacity related benefits topic #4509

Subject: "record of proceedings unreadable" First topic | Last topic
stevenm030
                              

welfare rights officer, dundee city council welfare rights
Member since
06th Jun 2008

record of proceedings unreadable
Wed 28-Oct-09 10:02 AM

I have a case where i have requested the statement of reasons following the loss of an ib appeal.

in the statement the judge makes reference to the clients evidence without stating what that evidence was.

I have went to the record of proceedings but in this case the vast majority of it is unreadable and therefore i cant see what the clients evidence has actually been recorded as.

has anyone had much sucess arguing that a decision should be set aside on this basis and any case law that has been used in these cases would be appreciated.

  

Top      

Replies to this topic
RE: record of proceedings unreadable, Dan_manville, 28th Oct 2009, #1
RE: record of proceedings unreadable, stevegale, 28th Oct 2009, #2
      RE: record of proceedings unreadable, clairehodgson, 28th Oct 2009, #3
           RE: record of proceedings unreadable, Robbo, 29th Oct 2009, #4
RE: record of proceedings unreadable, andyp4, 29th Oct 2009, #5
RE: record of proceedings unreadable, ariadne2, 29th Oct 2009, #6

Dan_manville
                              

Caseworker, Birmingham Tribunal Unit
Member since
08th Jun 2004

RE: record of proceedings unreadable
Wed 28-Oct-09 11:53 AM

Yes I have, although fortunately the judge, in my case referred to my client as calling himself a "rascal" I can't remember what punter had said as it was some time ago, might have been "ranitidine".

This is where keeping decent notes of a Tribunal hearing can be invaluable, it's not uncommon for me to sign my hearing notes and send them in with a "that's not what they said" set aside application.

  

Top      

stevegale
                              

Co-ordinator, Disability Information Service (Torbay)
Member since
03rd Feb 2004

RE: record of proceedings unreadable
Wed 28-Oct-09 05:24 PM

When everyone is immersed in the digital age I cannot understand why tribunals do not record proceedings. Recordings could be deleted after an appropriate lenth of time.

  

Top      

clairehodgson
                              

solicitor, CMH Solicitors, Durham
Member since
09th Apr 2009

RE: record of proceedings unreadable
Wed 28-Oct-09 06:39 PM

or even have someone (like a court reporter) taking a note...

i've a palm with keyboard and have been asked a few times "what's that" by chair - response, of course, it's for me to take notes on! (which reminds me, must ensure it's charged and ready for next tuesday... much more discreet than laptop!)

  

Top      

Robbo
                              

Welfare Rights Officer, Stockport Advice
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: record of proceedings unreadable
Thu 29-Oct-09 07:55 AM

In December 2007, the minutes of a NAWRA meeting include the following exchange :

Mark Perlic, Wolverhampton City Council

Q. In Derby and Nottingham there is a pilot project where tribunal proceedings are recorded onto CD. Is this a good idea? Will it be rolled out nationally? Will it address the problem of delays in receiving the written statement?

A. It is a good idea, and not expensive to set up. National roll-out has been discussed. So far, there have been no complaints at all from the sessions that have been recorded. It provides protection for everybody but procedurally it needs to be considered in detail. A report on the pilot is awaited.

The 'A' being provided by Jessica Burns, as then Regional Chairman.
The last TUG I went to, I asked for an update, but there wasn't one.

  

Top      

andyp4
                              

Welfare Benefits Advisor, South Somerset District Council (Yeovil)
Member since
16th Jul 2007

RE: record of proceedings unreadable
Thu 29-Oct-09 12:18 PM

Again this is another posting without an answer to your specific question, but i'd be sorely tempted in your position to ask for the ROP to be typed out.

I remember a few years ago having a case that was at Commissioners, and i could actually read the ROP (but then my writing is illegible), anyway the Commissioner in question couldn't and issued directions one of which was for the Appeals Service (as it was then) to sort out getting the ROP typed out.

  

Top      

ariadne2
                              

Welfare lawyer and social policy collator, Basingstoke CAB
Member since
13th Mar 2007

RE: record of proceedings unreadable
Thu 29-Oct-09 04:44 PM

And then you need to read the typed version very carefully side by side with the manuscript to see it hasn't mysteriously changed in the mean time (I had this problem with a student's exam script once...)

There is also an EMP in one of our local areas who has the most appalling handwriting - he was asked so often to get his reports types up that he now dictates them as a matter of routine, which has been a big help.

  

Top      

Top Incapacity related benefits topic #4509First topic | Last topic