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EU Referendum and UK poverty

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nevip
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Yes, took me by surprise to hear it’s all nearly settled….

Stuart
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 13 October 2017 04:59 PM

Yes, took me by surprise to hear it’s all nearly settled….

Seems that social security rights are now settled - from David Davis’ speech to the Commons yesterday -

‘We have reached agreement on: the criteria for residence rights; the right to work and own a business; social security rights; rights for current family members;...’.

...except…

‘But, of course, there are still some issues outstanding for both sides, including ...the right to return;
the right to bring in future family members; the right to export a range of benefits;...’

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/secretary-of-state-update-to-the-house-of-commons-on-eu-negotiations

 

 

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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They’ve updated the information about EEA nationals living in the UK and what’s supposed to happen.

On people with PRC already, they’re now advising (my emphasis):

So, if you have already gone through the process and received a permanent residence document, there will be a simple process for you to exchange this for a new settled status document free of charge. All you will need to do is provide an identity document, confirm you still reside in the UK and declare any criminal convictions. Any previous assessment of residence we have done will not be repeated.

Status of EU citizens in the UK: what you need to know

Damian
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” In most cases this means you will need 5 years of continuous and lawful residence in the UK as a worker, self-employed person, student, self-sufficient person, or family member of an EU citizen.”

“We will not check that you hold comprehensive sickness insurance regardless of what activity you have been undertaking in the UK (see note 2). You will not have to account for every trip that you have taken in and out of the UK.”

“Note 2: In some circumstances, comprehensive sickness insurance is still required for the purposes of accessing the healthcare system in the UK, but will no longer be considered as a requirement for acquiring settled status.”

Just checking that I’m not being a bit thick: they’ve agreed that self sufficiency without comprehensive sickness insurance should be treated as lawful residence for getting settled status?

Damian
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Yes Damo, youre not the brightest but that’s what it says. No checking of genuine and effective work either, from the procedures bit:

11. In order to streamline the application process, the UK intends to adopt a pragmatic
approach to the application of the agreed conditions, for example, by not checking
that comprehensive sickness insurance has been held by those who are not
economically active or are studying, or applying a genuine and effective work test.
We will also not seek to account for undocumented periods where we are satisfied
that, overall, the residence requirements have been met, meaning people will not
have to account for every trip that they have taken in and out of the UK.

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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That certaintly appears to be the case Damian.

shawn mach
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Came across this EU Commission mythbuster ..... contains some social welfare law stuff - for example -

- Brussels not “grabbing UK welfare” or “creating new benefit rights for migrants”
- Free movement and migration within the EU and rights to claim benefits – the myths and the facts
- More seriously misleading reporting on EU migrants and benefits

But also some other classics -

- Commission to outlaw mushy peas
- EU bans children from blowing up balloons
- Traditional barrister’s wig to be scrapped
- Butchers cannot give a dog a bone
- Speed limits to be enforced on children’s roundabouts

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index

Stuart
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European Scrutiny Committee is ‘disappointed’ with government response regarding amendments to social security coordination rules and Brexit -

‘With respect to the implications of Brexit for UK and EU nationals currently benefitting from Regulation 883/2004…. we are disappointed that the government is still unable to provide any information on its contingency planning should the Withdrawal Agreement, and its Citizens’ Rights chapter, not be ratified for whatever reason.’

... and, questioning the government on whether it would seek a new social security arrangement with the EU after Brexit and any transitional period, the Committee says ...

‘The Minister was, again, unable to provide clarity on this point. However, if the Government agrees to the post-Brexit transitional arrangement proposed by the EU, Regulation 883/2004 (and freedom of movement more broadly) would apply to the UK until the end of 2020 in any event. That would provide further time for the details of any new EU-UK social security agreement to be negotiated.’

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmeuleg/301-ix/30110.htm#_idTextAnchor014

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Come across this helpful free guide.

Created pro-bono by senior partners at two top-tier law firms - Wesley Gryk LLP and Bindmans LLP - this free guide comprehensively sets out the current immigration landscape for EEA citizens and their family members living in the UK.

Regularly updated to reflect changes in policy and the law, the guide is an accessible way for all citizens to freely better understand their rights and those of their families.

Here for good

Damian
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Am I right in thinking everything looks pants for the people with derivative right to reside? I can’t find that mentioned anywhere in this stuff.

Damian
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Not reading carefully enough,, they are covered

Daphne
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Written statement on the agreement reached with the European Union (EU) to safeguard the rights of EU citizens who are resident in the United Kingdom (UK) following the UK’s withdrawal from the EU following the Opposition Day Debate on 29 November 2017

We have agreed with the EU that the eligibility criteria for UK settled status will be the same as, or more favourable than, those set out in the EU Directive 2004/38/EC for acquiring permanent residence. In line with this, we have already committed to setting the evidence requirements to suit the demands of this unique situation and have taken a unilateral decision to introduce more favourable provisions to ensure that everyone lawfully in the UK on exit day will be able to stay. For example, we will not require evidence that economically inactive EU citizens have previously held comprehensive sickness insurance or apply a ‘genuine and effective’ work test. We are engaging closely with representative bodies for EU citizens in the UK to understand all the different circumstances under which they have built their lives in the UK so as to tailor evidential requirements appropriately.

 

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Updated information on the Citizens’ rights agreement

Worthwhile clicking through on the link Status of EU citizens in the UK: what you need to know. which has more details about how this will work in practice. Noticed this on costs, The application fee will be no more than the cost charged to British citizens for a UK passport. If you already have a valid permanent residence document, it will be free. so obtaining a PRC now does seem more worth the effort.

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Interesting LSE blog on some of the potential problems related to UK pensioners living abroad in terms of pensions, healthcare and social care, and the possible implications if they start deciding to all come home again….

The implications for the balance of payments between the United Kingdom and the remaining Member States are unclear. A 2017 report estimated that ‘if all the British pensioners who currently receive health care in other countries through EU agreements had to return, caring for them would require the NHS to spend an extra £1 billion a year.’

What will happen to health and social care for British pensioners living in the EU27?

Stuart
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Response to Public Accounts Committee request for progress reports on departmental work on Brexit .... does not include details of progress.

For benefits, the letter from the Department for Exiting the EU says -

DWP has seven main work streams related to leaving the EU. These include having policy responsibility for deciding the future approach for social security arrangements with the EU….

HMRC has 17 aggregated workstreams ... Specific examples include ... a workstream covering options for social security contributions currently co-ordinated with the EU for after the Implementation Period.

for further details, and the PAC response see Brexit work across Government: new details published from gov.uk

 

 

 

shawn mach
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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shawn - 04 May 2018 10:28 AM

Thought this was interesting:

This is what the EU immigration app will look like

Thanks Shawn. I think I read somewhere that the app won’t work with i-phones….

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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In case you missed it because the BBC don’t seem to believe that this constitutes news, thought it worth flagging this up.

MPs will have a vote on remaining in the European Economic Area – effectively a vote on the single market – after a shock defeat for the government in the Lords.

It means the Brexit strategy of both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn has been blown apart in the last 24 hours.

The rebel Labour amendment in the Lords opened the prospect of a Commons vote on the EEA – a less stringent version of the single market – after 83 Labour peers voted against the party whip.

Chuka Umunna, the Labour MP who co-chairs a pro-European Commons committee with Conservative Anna Soubry, said the leadership would now have to come off the fence and make it clear where it stood.

“The time for constructive ambiguity is over: our members and our voters will be delighted with this clear signal that we will not go along with this Tory Brexit,” he said.

Theresa May forced to give MPs single market vote after shock defeat

davidsmithp1000
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Think i just heard Caroline Nokes say that all applications for settled or temporary settled status, under the prospective EU settlement scheme will cost £65. Someone please tell me i have this wrong - https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/06e05d11-d3f9-44d0-9ef4-2f4c408ec41b?in=12:48:29

shawn mach
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From the Guardian -

Applications will cost £65 per adult, with children half price.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/21/uk-unveils-post-brexit-eu-citizen-settlement-scheme

shawn mach
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Didn’t realise that the voting this week also saw us waving goodbye to the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights…

The Fate of the Charter of Fundamental Rights in UK Law After Brexit is Sealed

Damian
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With all the difficulties with right to reside for however many years it seems hard to believe that by paying a few quid you get a right to reside and full access to benefits either through settled status or temporary settled status - no work conditions etc. Is there some complication such as limiting access to benefits to those with full settled status hidden up their sleeve?

Welfare Rights Adviser
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‘with the same entitlements
as now to work (subject, in light of the Withdrawal Agreement, to any relevant
occupational requirements), study and access public services and benefits, according to
the same rules as now.’

This implies that right to reside will still determine access to public services and benefits

Damian
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Surely that means quite a rewrite of benefit rules. Currently a persons activity determines whether they have r2r and then if they have r2r they are entitled to benefits, with limitations for certain ‘routes’ to r2r. If everyone has r2r through the same route then surely there would need to be a different way to restrict benefit entitlement. Maybe by restricting benefit rights of people with settled status to those who are workers etc?

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Dominic Raab appointed new Minister for Exiting the EU, following the resignation of David (this is all going to be so easy) Davis.

shawn mach
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 09 July 2018 10:56 AM

Dominic Raab appointed new Minister for Exiting the EU, following the resignation of David (this is all going to be so easy) Davis.

Couple of snippets from the Guardian and Times -

- “Yet again, housing policy has taken a back seat. Housing is supposed to be one of the government’s priorities. But Raab was in the job for just six months ....”

- “Whoever his replacement for housing is will be the 17th housing minister since 1997 and the 8th since 2010”

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Boris Johnson resigned as well now. This whole thing falling apart faster than you can say “Brexit means breakfast….”

Mike Hughes
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 09 July 2018 03:15 PM

Boris Johnson resigned as well now. This whole thing falling apart faster than you can say “Brexit means breakfast….”

Or… “it’s coming home!”

Said through gritted teeth as a Gog.