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What might trigger a transfer to UC in a digital area?
I am putting together case studies for the UC team for answers about what kind of scenarios might cause someone to end up on UC once they are in a digital area. These are the scenarios I have sent in so far. If you have others please post them and I can send them at regular intervals - and of course feedback when I get anything back. This is what I sent them today -
What would happen in the following scenarios in a digital area (ie legacy claim or UC claim) and clarify the legislation which provides for the answer –
1. A claimant in receipt of tax credits and housing benefit moves into a digital area (different local authority) which would normally necessitate a new housing benefit claim.
2. A claimant in receipt of tax credits and housing benefit moves into a digital area (same local authority) which would normally necessitate a change of circumstances form to the local authority.
3. A claimant who is in receipt of tax credits takes up a tenancy and would normally make a new claim for housing benefit.
4. A claimant in receipt of income-based JSA and housing benefit moves into a digital area (different local authority) which would normally necessitate a new housing benefit claim.
5. A claimant in receipt of income-based JSA and housing benefit moves into a digital area (same local authority) which would normally necessitate a change of circumstances form to the local authority.
6. A claimant who is on income-based JSA takes up a tenancy and would normally make a new claim for housing benefit.
7. A claimant who is on income-based ESA has a child and would normally claim child tax credit.
8. A claimant on tax credits making a renewal claim – no other changes of circumstances.
9. A claimant in receipt of working tax credit only who has a child which would normally require a call to tax credits to get child tax credit included on the claim.
10. A claimant who is in receipt of housing benefit whose job changes so that they would normally make a claim for working tax credit
Does anyone want to take a guess?
Unless the usual commencment order approach has been altered lately (haven’t checked the last couple) I think the answer is “none of the above unless the claimant chooses to migrate”.
My reasoning is:
- the commencement orders only abolish JSA(ib) and ESA(ir): you cannot make a new claim for either of those in a digital area under any circumstances
- the facility to make new claims for any of the other legacy benefits is controlled by the transitional provisions regs
- those regs do not prevent a person from claiming legacy benefits when they are still untouched by UC
- but with no gateway there is nothing to stop you from making a UC claim and immediately forfeiting your legacy benefits under the transitional regs if you calculate that you would be better off
- this is a bit like the overlapping eligibility that some lone parents have in the North West and the handful of other pre-2015 sites, but on a much larger scale: see http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/8680/
Go on, shoot me down
Wouldn’t they be caught by (e.g) article 7 of the No. 23 Order ?
“7.—(1) Except as provided by paragraphs (2) to (6), a person may not make a claim for housing benefit, income support or a tax credit (in the latter case, whether or not as part of a Tax Credits Act couple) on any date where, if that person made a claim for universal credit on that date (in the capacity, whether as a single person or as part of a couple, in which he or she is permitted to claim universal credit under the Universal Credit Regulations 2013), the provisions of the Act listed in Schedule 2 to the No. 9 Order would come into force under article 3(1) and (2)(a) of this Order in relation to a claim for universal credit.”
The exceptions (2)-(6) are just
(2) “too difficult” cases.
(3) (re HB) - specified accomodation
(4) mixed-age couples (HB/TC)
(5) already on TC.
(6) TC renewals.
The No. 25 and No. 26 orders import this provision and article 6 of the No 20 order is similar.
Wouldn’t they be caught by (e.g) article 7 of the No. 23 Order ?
“7.—(1) Except as provided by paragraphs (2) to (6), a person may not make a claim for housing benefit, income support or a tax credit (in the latter case, whether or not as part of a Tax Credits Act couple) on any date where, if that person made a claim for universal credit on that date (in the capacity, whether as a single person or as part of a couple, in which he or she is permitted to claim universal credit under the Universal Credit Regulations 2013), the provisions of the Act listed in Schedule 2 to the No. 9 Order would come into force under article 3(1) and (2)(a) of this Order in relation to a claim for universal credit.”
The exceptions (2)-(6) are just
(2) “too difficult” cases.
(3) (re HB) - specified accomodation
(4) mixed-age couples (HB/TC)
(5) already on TC.
(6) TC renewals.
The No. 25 and No. 26 orders import this provision and article 6 of the No 20 order is similar.
Just to be clear Jon, where you reference (4) mixed age couples, this is over/under PC-age couples presumably? If so, then this means that even in the full digital areas, anyone in such a couple can simply continue as they are and won’t be required to claim UC at all, whether on PC or not?
Ah yes - that would cause the claimants in 4, 5, 6, 7 and 10 to migrate to UC unless any of them was already receiving CTC, right?
Just to be clear Jon, where you reference (4) mixed age couples, this is over/under PC-age couples presumably? If so, then this means that even in the full digital areas, anyone in such a couple can simply continue as they are and won’t be required to claim UC at all, whether on PC or not?
Sorry, Paul, yes, I meant couples where one member has reached qualifying age for state pension credit and the other hasn’t.
I think that this exception means they aren’t barred from claiming CTC/WTC and HB even though they’re in a digital area.
( As far as I know couples in this position also still claim pension credit in all areas because WRA 2012 Schedule 2 para 64 still hasn’t been brought into force - unless I’ve missed it? )
Just to be clear Jon, where you reference (4) mixed age couples, this is over/under PC-age couples presumably? If so, then this means that even in the full digital areas, anyone in such a couple can simply continue as they are and won’t be required to claim UC at all, whether on PC or not?
Sorry, Paul, yes, I meant couples where one member has reached qualifying age for state pension credit and the other hasn’t.
I think that this exception means they aren’t barred from claiming CTC/WTC and HB even though they’re in a digital area.
( As far as I know couples in this position also still claim pension credit in all areas because WRA 2012 Schedule 2 para 64 still hasn’t been brought into force - unless I’ve missed it? )
Thanks Jon, very helpful (as always).
Meant to say “As far as I know couples in this position can also still claim pension credit ” - I think they could opt for UC but they’d almost always be worse off.
My reading is that once able to claim Pension Credit there is no entitlement to Universal Credit. There are a very few, probably artificial, working situations when that would have made people worse off because of the old work allowances. I haven’t remodeled since the cuts but I think it unlikely that those still exist.
My reading is that once able to claim Pension Credit there is no entitlement to Universal Credit. There are a very few, probably artificial, working situations when that would have made people worse off because of the old work allowances. I haven’t remodeled since the cuts but I think it unlikely that those still exist.
Certainly you can’t have dual entitlement to PC and UC ( reg 6 of the TP regs) and in non-digital areas mixed-age couples will automatically fail gateway anyway but I’ve not noticed anything that would automatically stop UC for couples who become mixed-age.
As you say, although it’s easy to construct artificial cases where they’d be better off on UC than PC ( claimants with high housing costs and lots of high earning non-deps would be an example) in real life PC will almost always be better.
My reading is that once able to claim Pension Credit there is no entitlement to Universal Credit. There are a very few, probably artificial, working situations when that would have made people worse off because of the old work allowances. I haven’t remodeled since the cuts but I think it unlikely that those still exist.
Certainly you can’t have dual entitlement to PC and UC ( reg 6 of the TP regs) and in non-digital areas mixed-age couples will automatically fail gateway anyway but I’ve not noticed anything that would automatically stop UC for couples who become mixed-age.
.
I was saying that you can’t claim UC if entitled to PC.
WRA 2012
4 Basic conditions
(1) For the purposes of section 3, a person meets the basic conditions who—
(a)..
(b) has not reached the qualifying age for state pension credit,
Mixed age couples are a specific exception.
Letter from Lord Freud to Baroness Hollis to ‘clarify the changes of circumstances that would give rise to somebody moving from working tax credit to universal credit’
Hi Daphne
Got any answers from the UC team so far?
Also, as with a few other areas, full UC being rolled out to only one of three Jobcentres in Newcastle. So I can add a question about someone who moves within Newcastle but moves from one JCP area to another. Would for example that necessitate a new HB claim? My specific questions are:
1. If someone lives in Cathedral Square JCP area, goes onto UC but then moves to a non UC JCP area in Newcastle, do they continue to be a UC claimant?
2. Similarly, if someone on legacy benefit moves into Cathedral Square area but does not have a change in circs that would trigger a claim to UC – do they remain legacy benefit or have to claim UC?
Another q for the UC team (apols is this for another forum question):
On the DWP UC Feb16 sheet announcing the change it says: “… anyone who is currently claiming UC through the live service will then migrate onto the full service over the first three months of operation.” Will they receive transitional protection if their legacy benefits are higher than UC - as with other migrated people?
I can answer the second one I think: these people are already on UC, the “migration” DWP is referring to there is from the old platform to the new one where certain things will happen more digitally than they do under “live service”. The rate of benefit will not be affected in most cases. There are some obscure rules about earnings that apply differently in digital areas (which I think are being delayed anyway), but if you are not affected by those rules you get the same amount of UC on either platform. Therefore transitional protection won’t be necessary.
Thank you - I assume this is your answer to my last para?
Yes - just that bit