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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Universal credit administration  →  Thread

Another stop notice issue

Dan Manville
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I’m raising this as much to flag up that it’s happened as I fear stop notices are going out automatically irrespective of whether the basic conditions at S4(1) (a) to (d) are met.

The claimant in this case was in receipt of Pension Credit so didn’t meet S4(1) (b) of the act.

Despite that a stop notice was issued and HMRC have killed off his CTC award and it’s going to take appeal proceedings to try and correct that.


Fortunately the situation can be distinguished from the two claimants in SK & JL and I think, particularly reading SK, there’s mileage in an appeal and an albeit very late in the day LBA to the council concerned who I know have mistakenly told A Lot of people to claim UC when they didn’t need to (I might enjoy that, a job for next weekend methinks)

Links to caselaw:

SK https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/61faac41d3bf7f78ebc99071/CTC_0073_2021-00.pdf
JL https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/61f7fdafe90e0768a90f1fcf/CH_2263_2019-00.pdf

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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So they are a single claimant on PC and CTC Dan? Why did they make the UC claim?

Charles
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Not relevant to your case, but it’s worth noting that in the near future the requirement for the Secretary of State to be satisfied that the claimant meets the basic conditions is being withdrawn. It’s one of the changes due to be made by the Regs being looked at by SSAC.

Dan Manville
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 19 May 2022 12:21 PM

So they are a single claimant on PC and CTC Dan? Why did they make the UC claim?

Because the council told them to; his NRPF wife had joined the household.

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Dan Manville - 20 May 2022 04:06 PM
Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 19 May 2022 12:21 PM

So they are a single claimant on PC and CTC Dan? Why did they make the UC claim?

Because the council told them to; his NRPF wife had joined the household.

Reclaim PC with child elements might be an easier solution?

Dan Manville
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 20 May 2022 04:29 PM
Dan Manville - 20 May 2022 04:06 PM
Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 19 May 2022 12:21 PM

So they are a single claimant on PC and CTC Dan? Why did they make the UC claim?

Because the council told them to; his NRPF wife had joined the household.

Reclaim PC with child elements might be an easier solution?

You know this is the first time I’ve had to remember that PC even had child elements! I suspect that applies to the person the client phoned at the Pension Service who’d… ermmm… forgotten they’d been introduced.

I had high thoughts of interesting appeals but the reality is quite mundane.

Thankfully his PC didn’t stop so the supersession request is in the post.

Cheer Paul

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Dan Manville - 24 May 2022 02:21 PM

You know this is the first time I’ve had to remember that PC even had child elements! I suspect that applies to the person the client phoned at the Pension Service who’d… ermmm… forgotten they’d been introduced.

I had high thoughts of interesting appeals but the reality is quite mundane.

Thankfully his PC didn’t stop so the supersession request is in the post.

Cheer Paul

No worries Dan, we have heard reports (including here iirc) of Pension Service denying that child elements were a thing for PC so it’s not just you…..

Dan Manville
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 24 May 2022 02:35 PM
Dan Manville - 24 May 2022 02:21 PM

You know this is the first time I’ve had to remember that PC even had child elements! I suspect that applies to the person the client phoned at the Pension Service who’d… ermmm… forgotten they’d been introduced.

I had high thoughts of interesting appeals but the reality is quite mundane.

Thankfully his PC didn’t stop so the supersession request is in the post.

Cheer Paul

No worries Dan, we have heard reports (including here iirc) of Pension Service denying that child elements were a thing for PC so it’s not just you…..

Cheers

I’d be interested in your thoughts on next steps.

PC claimant with an NRPF wife younger than State Pension Age. The day she stops being NRPF she becomes part of his household and voila they become a MAC. No possibility of managed migration beforehand cuz he’s over Pension Age.

I’m thinking there may be permutations here that might be advantageous but I might be thinking myself round in circles.

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Dan Manville - 24 May 2022 03:23 PM

Cheers

I’d be interested in your thoughts on next steps.

PC claimant with an NRPF wife younger than State Pension Age. The day she stops being NRPF she becomes part of his household and voila they become a MAC. No possibility of managed migration beforehand cuz he’s over Pension Age.

I’m thinking there may be permutations here that might be advantageous but I might be thinking myself round in circles.

We had one of these cases last year, wife got status to remain in the UK, PC/HB stopped and only option was to claim UC - this is because the only barrier to claiming UC previously had been wife’s NRPF status so as soon as that vanished, the terms of the exclusion in the CO also vanished, notwithstanding nothing else had changed in their circumstances.

It’s extremely difficult for people because there are obvious reasons to want to regularise someone’s right to remain in the UK and claim benefits etc, but ion the other hand, the single person PC rates are still more than you will get under UC.