× Search rightsnet
Search options

Where

Benefit

Jurisdiction

Jurisdiction

From

to

Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Universal credit administration  →  Thread

UC for 17yo not in education? 

Va1der
forum member

Welfare Rights Officer with SWAMP Glasgow

Send message

Total Posts: 706

Joined: 7 May 2019

I know this has been discussed before, but couldn’t find what applies in this particular circumstance.

My client is 17yo, he was recently orphaned and currently resides with his grandmother.  He is not in education and is actively looking for work (no LCW etc).

Is it correct that he can neither claim UC in his own right, nor can his grandmother claim the child element of PC (as he’s not a QYP)? 

As far as I can gather, his grandmother is ‘acting in place of a parent’ - though if she can’t access any financial support I might be able to make the argument that she lacks (or soon will) the financial capacity to do so(?) She’s currently depleting her savings to support him.

HarlowAC
forum member

Harlow Advice Centre

Send message

Total Posts: 184

Joined: 1 March 2019

Bullet point 5 of CPAG page 37 states that “You are treated as without parental support if you are not being looked after by a local authority”. I think, therefore, that your client could claim UC?

Vonny
forum member

Welfare rights adviser - Social Inclusion Unit, Swansea

Send message

Total Posts: 486

Joined: 17 June 2010

Wouldn’t it be possible for a recently orphaned 17 year old to get a sick note on the grounds of the stress of what has happened (you can be sick and still look for a job)?
Has the grandparent been in contact with social services for support due to the circumstances?

Va1der
forum member

Welfare Rights Officer with SWAMP Glasgow

Send message

Total Posts: 706

Joined: 7 May 2019

HarlowAC - 11 February 2022 09:39 AM

Bullet point 5 of CPAG page 37 states that “You are treated as without parental support if you are not being looked after by a local authority”. I think, therefore, that your client could claim UC?

As I understand it the definition of parent under reg 8(4) stands in the way. By having someone acting in place of a parent he’s treated as having a parent.

Vonny - 11 February 2022 09:53 AM

Wouldn’t it be possible for a recently orphaned 17 year old to get a sick note on the grounds of the stress of what has happened (you can be sick and still look for a job)?
Has the grandparent been in contact with social services for support due to the circumstances?

It’s a few months since his father passed now. He seems like a capable young man that’s making meaningful headway towards getting employment, so I’m reluctant to push for that route, though I’ll highlight it to him. Would that basically then overcome the age restriction (at least) until a WCA is carried out?

One of our other advisers is looking into other sources of support grants, social services etc.

 

HB Anorak
forum member

Benefits consultant/trainer - hbanorak.co.uk, East London

Send message

Total Posts: 2895

Joined: 12 March 2013

HarlowAC - 11 February 2022 09:39 AM

Bullet point 5 of CPAG page 37 states that “You are treated as without parental support if you are not being looked after by a local authority”. I think, therefore, that your client could claim UC?

That’s just the threshold requirement, there follows a list of additional conditions, at least one of which must be satisfied.  See Reg 8(3).  The list includes having no parent, and “parent” is then defined as including someone acting in place of a parent.  The possible argument suggested by the OP in this case would be that the grandmother is not doing that.  Another option is to have submitted a fit note and be awaiting a work capability assessment, which is the work-around suggested by Vonny.

It looks as if the Regs were drafted to cater for the law in England: this situation is a legal impossibility in England, you cannot be a 17-year-old NEET.  But as far as I am aware, you can in Scotland or Wales and you might find yourself slipping through the net like this claimant.

Va1der
forum member

Welfare Rights Officer with SWAMP Glasgow

Send message

Total Posts: 706

Joined: 7 May 2019

Why can’t you be a 17yo NEET in England?

I did consider the route of getting him into education or specified training, but I find the British educational system endlessly confusing and don’t know what the timelines would be.

Vonny
forum member

Welfare rights adviser - Social Inclusion Unit, Swansea

Send message

Total Posts: 486

Joined: 17 June 2010

Va1der - 11 February 2022 10:35 AM

Why can’t you be a 17yo NEET in England?

I did consider the route of getting him into education or specified training, but I find the British educational system endlessly confusing and don’t know what the timelines would be.

I believe (from the distant hills of Wales) that the legal school/education leaving age in England was raised to 18

HB Anorak
forum member

Benefits consultant/trainer - hbanorak.co.uk, East London

Send message

Total Posts: 2895

Joined: 12 March 2013

Yep, that’s right.  Have to be in sixth form, training or apprenticeship.  It’s often pointed out that no active measures will be taken against the NEET or his/her parents, it’s not as if the wag man will be looking for you.  But your legal non-status bites when it comes to benefits.

Vonny
forum member

Welfare rights adviser - Social Inclusion Unit, Swansea

Send message

Total Posts: 486

Joined: 17 June 2010

Not an area I know much about but as a result are not all 16/17 year olds guaranteed a place in education, training or an apprenticeship? 
though does not help the 17 year old in Scotland

HB Anorak
forum member

Benefits consultant/trainer - hbanorak.co.uk, East London

Send message

Total Posts: 2895

Joined: 12 March 2013

Vonny - 11 February 2022 11:04 AM

Not an area I know much about but as a result are not all 16/17 year olds guaranteed a place in education, training or an apprenticeship?

Some don’t want to, or they work cash in hand in their dad’s landscaping business or whatever.  No-one’s checking apparently

S Duffy
forum member

Welfare rights - GIPSIL, Leeds

Send message

Total Posts: 17

Joined: 30 June 2010

Hello
There is a thread related to this issue here: https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/17787/

The key issue is, before education or employment is brought into the matter: are they without parental support, as set out in UC regs 8(3)
- For the purposes of paragraph (1)(g) a young person is without parental support where that person is not being looked after by a local authority and— (a)has no parent;  ....

The definition of parent is the crux, does grandmother consider herself to be just that, acting in the place of a parent?

I would explore this matter further because it is entirely possible that she does NOT fulfill the definition acting in place of a “parent” and I would then seek to challenge a decision stating she is and so not to award UC.  There are significant pieces of caselaw on this matter mentioned in the other thread.