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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Universal credit migration  →  Thread

UC or IS revision?

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dizzymare
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thank you for taking the time to post Stainsby. I will see what comes back from UT and then have a detailed look at what you have detailed.

Kez Dare
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Hi all - we’re dealing with a similar case - going to tribunal at the end of March.

Client was receiving IS as a carer for son. Husband’s PIP stopped and they lost disability premium. This caused income to be too high for IS so stopped. PIP decision was appealed and PIP was reinstated and backdated to decision date. Thoughts on whether client should have IS reinstated (and not have to make a new claim, which has the obvious problem of no longer being an option) since the disability premium not being awarded was a mistake?

If anyone has had any updates on their case / written statement of reasons we would be really interested to hear from you!

dizzymare
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HI we are still waiting for something back from UT on our case. Hoping to hear something shortly. will update asap.

Bolton Adviser
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I have received the written statement of reasons for my client’s decision.  The FTT Judge has relied on SSA 1998
s8
(2)Where at any time a claim for a relevant benefit is decided by the Secretary of State—
(a)the claim shall not be regarded as subsisting after that time; and
(b)accordingly, the claimant shall not (without making a further claim) be entitled to the benefit on the basis of circumstances not obtaining at that time.

I am looking to appeal to the UT.  I think the last paragraph of Elliott’s post #23 may be helpful here.

I’ll let you know if any progress

Terry Craven
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Kez Dare - 16 March 2021 01:56 PM

Hi all - we’re dealing with a similar case - going to tribunal at the end of March.

Client was receiving IS as a carer for son. Husband’s PIP stopped and they lost disability premium. This caused income to be too high for IS so stopped. PIP decision was appealed and PIP was reinstated and backdated to decision date. Thoughts on whether client should have IS reinstated (and not have to make a new claim, which has the obvious problem of no longer being an option) since the disability premium not being awarded was a mistake?

If anyone has had any updates on their case / written statement of reasons we would be really interested to hear from you!

Your client is entitled to an any time revision.,  it is a revision of the old award. Winning the appeal means your client ought to have the IS and CP backdated. In effect the appeal returns your client to the same circumstances which obtained on the date of decision to remove PIP. Contact the CA unit in writing requesting a revision of the decision to withdraw the benefit. Include a copy of the letter confirming the tribunal’s decision. Also write to IS, include the PIP decision. Use words to the effect.

“ Please review your decision of xxxxxx, which removed my client’s IS . This ought to be done by virtue because regulation 12(a)and 12(b) are applicable ,

“an award of another relevant benefit or of an increase in the rate of another relevant benefit is made to the claimant or, in the case of universal credit, to a member of their family, for a period which includes the date on which the original award took effect,

the Secretary of State may revise the original award.
.
Award of another benefit

12.  Where—

(a)the Secretary of State makes a decision to award a benefit to a claimant (“the original award”); and

(b)an award of another relevant benefit or of an increase in the rate of another relevant benefit is made to the claimant or, in the case of universal credit, to a member of their family, for a period which includes the date on which the original award took effect,

the Secretary of State may revise the original award.

Obviously, I might be wrong. If.I am incorrect, I am sure other members will not doubt advise me accordingly, which I welcome.


[ Edited: 18 Apr 2021 at 01:09 am by Terry Craven ]
HB Anorak
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Bolton Adviser - 16 April 2021 06:01 PM

I have received the written statement of reasons for my client’s decision.  The FTT Judge has relied on SSA 1998
s8
(2)Where at any time a claim for a relevant benefit is decided by the Secretary of State—
(a)the claim shall not be regarded as subsisting after that time; and
(b)accordingly, the claimant shall not (without making a further claim) be entitled to the benefit on the basis of circumstances not obtaining at that time.

I am looking to appeal to the UT.  I think the last paragraph of Elliott’s post #23 may be helpful here.

I’ll let you know if any progress

I’m not sure that is the right legislation to cite - I would have though s12(8) was more relevant (Tribunal cannot take into account circumstances not obtaining at time of Secretary of state’s decision).  It raises the same fundamental question - whether the award of another benefit in arrears to either the claimant or the person they care for has the legal effect of altering circumstances at the date of the decision to end IS.  But that looks to me like an easy and obvious way to get permission: wrong legislation relied on by FtT.

Elliot Kent
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Terry Craven - 18 April 2021 12:25 AM
Kez Dare - 16 March 2021 01:56 PM

Hi all - we’re dealing with a similar case - going to tribunal at the end of March.

Client was receiving IS as a carer for son. Husband’s PIP stopped and they lost disability premium. This caused income to be too high for IS so stopped. PIP decision was appealed and PIP was reinstated and backdated to decision date. Thoughts on whether client should have IS reinstated (and not have to make a new claim, which has the obvious problem of no longer being an option) since the disability premium not being awarded was a mistake?

If anyone has had any updates on their case / written statement of reasons we would be really interested to hear from you!

Your client is entitled to an any time revision.,  it is a revision of the old award. Winning the appeal means your client ought to have the IS and CP backdated. In effect the appeal returns your client to the same circumstances which obtained on the date of decision to remove PIP. Contact the CA unit in writing requesting a revision of the decision to withdraw the benefit. Include a copy of the letter confirming the tribunal’s decision. Also write to IS, include the PIP decision. Use words to the effect.

The trouble with this argument is that reg 12(1) D&A 2013 - although as this is a legacy benefit case it would be reg 3(7) D&A 1999 -  only allows any time revision in a case where benefit was awarded. So for example it would cover a case where somebody gets JSA and then wins their PIP appeal so gets the disability premium. As Kez’s case and the others in this thread have involved the refusal of benefit, they have not been able to use reg 3(7) and have been relying on the general any grounds revision power. This has then resulted in the DWP raising the argument that they are not allowed to consider a revision by reference to a post-decision change of circumstances. The point of principle is then whether that is a correct description of an appeal outcome.

Kez Dare
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Terry Craven - 18 April 2021 12:25 AM
Kez Dare - 16 March 2021 01:56 PM

Hi all - we’re dealing with a similar case - going to tribunal at the end of March.

Client was receiving IS as a carer for son. Husband’s PIP stopped and they lost disability premium. This caused income to be too high for IS so stopped. PIP decision was appealed and PIP was reinstated and backdated to decision date. Thoughts on whether client should have IS reinstated (and not have to make a new claim, which has the obvious problem of no longer being an option) since the disability premium not being awarded was a mistake?

If anyone has had any updates on their case / written statement of reasons we would be really interested to hear from you!

Your client is entitled to an any time revision.,  it is a revision of the old award. Winning the appeal means your client ought to have the IS and CP backdated. In effect the appeal returns your client to the same circumstances which obtained on the date of decision to remove PIP. Contact the CA unit in writing requesting a revision of the decision to withdraw the benefit. Include a copy of the letter confirming the tribunal’s decision. Also write to IS, include the PIP decision. Use words to the effect.

Thank you - we had our appeal allowed at the end of March. We submitted that it could be revised as any any grounds revision under 3(1)(b) of the Social Security and Child Support (Decisions &Appeals;) Regulations 1999 and that evidence only had to relate to the time of the decision under appeal, it does not matter at which time it came into existence (and therefore no real change of circumstance if DWP brings that up) (CH/3935/2007 at paragraph 14,Judge Jacobs - written further up in this thread, THANK YOU!)

IS was reinstated but under 6(b)(i) and 8 of the Social Security and Child Support (Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 1999 (superseded the original decision).

Will update if DWP take it to upper tribunal.

 

[ Edited: 19 Apr 2021 at 05:41 pm by shawn mach ]
Bolton Adviser
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That’s great news, Kez! - let’s hope the DWP doesn’t appeal it.

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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We’ve got one of these cases now, but the client has claimed Universal Credit which has been in payment for about one year now - sorry if I’m being thick but does that mean we’re done for in looking to get the IS award reinstated?

I’ve got a feeling that it does because any revision regarding the IS termination could only take effect up to and including the date of the UC award but just want to be sure.

Elliot Kent
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Would depend on the specifics Paul -

(1) the UC award would end the IS anyway - so if you got the IS termination revised it would only cover the period up until UC was claimed which may only be a few days or weeks. Possibly not worth arguing over.
(2) the argument being used above requires the revision to go in within 13 months of the actual decision to end IS - so you may be out of time already.

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Elliot Kent - 23 April 2021 11:57 AM

Would depend on the specifics Paul -

(1) the UC award would end the IS anyway - so if you got the IS termination revised it would only cover the period up until UC was claimed which may only be a few days or weeks. Possibly not worth arguing over.
(2) the argument being used above requires the revision to go in within 13 months of the actual decision to end IS - so you may be out of time already.

Thanks Elliot, you’re correct, we are out of time now. Ah well, worth checking.

Jezy
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Dear All

Many thanks to everyone who has posted arguments on this thread - I used them to great success last week (see attached FtT decision).

Client and I are keeping our fingers crossed that DWP does not appeal to UT.

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Elliot Kent
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That’s a very clear and precise decision Jezy. Selfishly, I am hoping that the DWP do appeal it - as when they lose there will at least be a UT decision on this issue specifically which DWP will need to address…

Bolton Adviser
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That’s great - let’s hope the DWP doesn’t appeal it.  Today I have been granted permission to appeal my client’s decision to the UT.  Thank you for posting your decision Jezy - it is a very similar case to mine and the decision summary will come in useful when I am composing my arguments for the UT.