× Search rightsnet
Search options

Where

Benefit

Jurisdiction

Jurisdiction

From

to

Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Disability benefits  →  Thread

Wet wipes as oppossed to toilet paper. An aid or appliance??

CMILKCAB
forum member

Benefits advisor, NHS Project - Castlemilk CAB, Glasgow

Send message

Total Posts: 92

Joined: 17 June 2010

Client in 6 points DL.

Only area of dispute is “managing toilet needs and incontinence”.
Client has significant carpal tunnel. Poor grip and sensation in hands. Toilet paper alone does not full clean and he feels dirty afterwards. Hence uses wet toilet wipes.
MR decision back with this;
“I cannot consider cleansing wipes an aid under Personal Independence guidelines”

Anyone with any thoughts, experience, case law on this one??

A wee aside. Got 2 points for preparing a meal for use of aids. However is it worth arguing that even with aids he would require assistance? Unable to peel or chop. Not sure what aids he could use with poor grip.

Ruth_T
forum member

Volunteer adviser - Corby Borough Welfare Rights & CAB

Send message

Total Posts: 313

Joined: 21 June 2010

Take a look at CPIP/2574/2018.  There’s a summary available on Rightsnet Caselaw of 24 July 2019, with a link to the full decision.

Mike Hughes
forum member

Senior welfare rights officer - Salford City Council Welfare Rights Service

Send message

Total Posts: 3138

Joined: 17 June 2010

neilcoll - 22 November 2019 05:17 PM

Client in 6 points DL.

Only area of dispute is “managing toilet needs and incontinence”.
Client has significant carpal tunnel. Poor grip and sensation in hands. Toilet paper alone does not full clean and he feels dirty afterwards. Hence uses wet toilet wipes.
MR decision back with this;
“I cannot consider cleansing wipes an aid under Personal Independence guidelines”

Anyone with any thoughts, experience, case law on this one??

A wee aside. Got 2 points for preparing a meal for use of aids. However is it worth arguing that even with aids he would require assistance? Unable to peel or chop. Not sure what aids he could use with poor grip.

I would always argue that on the basis of reliability in terms of reasonable standard/reasonable time as regards peeling and chopping. .

As regards (pardon the pun) the matter at hand, I think there’s a similar argument to be had in the sense that you can pull out and then use several sheets of toilet paper in one elongated movement (second bad pun, sorry) but a switch to wet wipes instantly renders that impossible as you get one wipe at a time and even a person with good motor skills will often struggle to get one wipe out without another going elsewhere or it ripping etc. before you even get into using it. Anyone with a small child will be able to recall this.

 

Daphne
Administrator

rightsnet writer / editor

Send message

Total Posts: 3537

Joined: 14 March 2014

Ruth_T - 22 November 2019 08:11 PM

Take a look at CPIP/2574/2018.  There’s a summary available on Rightsnet Caselaw of 24 July 2019, with a link to the full decision.

https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/welfare-rights/caselaw/item/Fan-heater-hair-dryer-and-hot-water-tap-used-to-ease-symptoms-of-periphera

Va1der
forum member

Welfare Rights Officer with SWAMP Glasgow

Send message

Total Posts: 706

Joined: 7 May 2019

pipinfo.net will have some useful caselaw, sorted by descriptor.

There are numerous aids designed for people with poor grip. Half of the stuff that’s sold on TV-shop etc. were designed for people with health problems, but marketed for a wider audience…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71mQ6kB-Aac - now he can peel,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGqWxxC4Ops - and now he can chop.

However, there would have to be an assessment by the DWP or tribunal that it would be reasonable for him to use such aids and that they would allow him to prepare a meal safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and within a reasonable time period.
At the very least, some anecdotal evidence that he’s already tried and failed to use aids might be useful.

On a side note, depending on his circumstances, it might be worth looking at a Community Care Grant to pay for some aids he would benefit from.

CMILKCAB
forum member

Benefits advisor, NHS Project - Castlemilk CAB, Glasgow

Send message

Total Posts: 92

Joined: 17 June 2010

Many thanks for all comments.
Found this very helpful as part of my submission…

[2016] UKUT 197 (AAC)  ” an aid does not have to be specifically designed, made and sold for the purpose of overcoming a limitation or function. Whatever the purpose for which the item was designed or sold, the question is whether or not it is being used as an aid. So, in principle, such items might be aids. Whether they are being used as such will depend on whether they are needed to assist in respect of a function involved in the activity that is impaired.’

Mike Hughes
forum member

Senior welfare rights officer - Salford City Council Welfare Rights Service

Send message

Total Posts: 3138

Joined: 17 June 2010

Unless of course it’s a sat nav, despite the fact there are no sat navs currently on the market which fit the definition!