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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Universal credit administration  →  Thread

UC say no income reported on RTI - employer and HMRC say it was

Andrew Dutton
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Welfare rights service - Derbyshire County Council

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Claimant is an employee of a large RTI employer.

In the July-August AP he was paid as normal but UC claim that the employer did not report the earnings.

Employer is adamant that they did but cannot produce proof without breaching GDPR, as presumably the report contains the personal details of many others.

HMRC insists that the information was available to UC as normal, and that UC must have misinterpreted it somehow.

UC initially told the claimant to self-report the earnings but then refused to accept a self-report, telling the claimant they would count earnings as nil for that AP and then count two lots of earnings in a following AP.

It seems to me that there are sufficient powers on Regs 54 and 61 for UC to accept a self-report (and perhaps info from the employer and HMRC) and to ascribe the earnings to the correct AP.

Any thoughts?  Do I have the right tree to bark up?

Charles
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Accountant, Haffner Hoff Ltd, Manchester

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They definitely have the power under reg 61(3)(b)(i) and (4) to do as you say, perhaps with evidence like a payslip and bank statement. However, reg 61(5) explicitly allows them to include it in the following AP.

Andrew Dutton
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Welfare rights service - Derbyshire County Council

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Thanks Charles.

Yes I looked at 61(5) but as that is something they ‘may’ do, I’m hoping discretion will be exercised in a common-sense manner. Errrr…..

By the way, you recently helped with a mixed-age couple/PC/UC/HB mess which has been resolved in the claimant’s favour: thank you very much, from me and the adviser I was supporting.

Charles
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Accountant, Haffner Hoff Ltd, Manchester

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That’s nice to hear. Thank you.

Tara CAC
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Children's Centre Project: Citizens Advice Cornwall

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The tax account will show the date the employer enters as the date paid irrespective of when those earnings reports were sent or when they may have been paid.

Eg usual payday 20th
Ap 22-21

20th is a Sunday so client gets paid Friday 18th

Employer should enter 20th as the date paid even if they pay early due to the payday falling on a non-working day.

If this is sent on or before the 20th with the date entered as paid as 20th uc get the earnings info that date.

If the employer reports late but enters the date paid as the usual payday them hmrc initial info will show earnings reported correctly but uc wouldn’t have the info on 20th.

If they sent it 21St no harm done as it’s still within the assessment so will be used in the calculation.
If they send it 22 or after it would fall in.the following assessment calculation.

You can request a further breakdown of reported earnings from hmrc or via rti dispute - usually date entered as date paid is the issue but you need the date the earnings information was received.

Client can self report then the subsequent duplicate earnings from the employer can be disregarded or they’d have to challenge the double earnings in the following assessment.
Uc are highly inconsistent with how they handle these issues and it just seems to be who deals with it as to whether it’s fixed on rti dispute, mandatory reconsideration or appeal - which isn’t very helpful!

Tara CAC
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Children's Centre Project: Citizens Advice Cornwall

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CUC/166/2017 - Secretary of State concedes that where an employer fails to notify earnings on time, a universal credit award may be adjusted to make appropriate amendments

https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-v-rw-rule-17-uc-2017-ukut-347-aac

Andrew Dutton
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Welfare rights service - Derbyshire County Council

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Tara CAC - 13 September 2019 12:39 PM

CUC/166/2017 - Secretary of State concedes that where an employer fails to notify earnings on time, a universal credit award may be adjusted to make appropriate amendments

https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-v-rw-rule-17-uc-2017-ukut-347-aac


Many thanks for this.