Deduction from UC for court fine

clive - 16 August 2019 01:55 PM

In answer to a letter from claimant’s support officer asking for reduction due to hardship, the reply from the court fines officer - central enforcement unit - says the deduction rate is not determined by them but set in law, and advises client to ask for MR from DWP.

The DWP said on the journal they cannot reduce the fine and the request has to be made by the courts.

It is absolutely for the DWP to decide what the deduction should be between 5% and £108.35 and there is a specific right of appeal . See the Fines (Deductions from Income Support) Regulations 1992.

Brill, thank you

I see regs 4(5), 9 and 10 are clear on that.

But also reg 2 says:

‘(2) Before making an application the court shall make an enquiry as to the offender’s means.’

clive - 16 August 2019 04:06 PM

Brill, thank you

I see regs 4(5), 9 and 10 are clear on that.

But also reg 2 says:

‘(2) Before making an application the court shall make an enquiry as to the offender’s means.’

Yes so:

-Claimant owes money due to a fine to Mags Court.
-Mags Court “enquires into his means” under 2(2) and ultimately decides to seek a deduction.
-Once the deduction is sought, SSWP then decides whether to make the deduction and in what amount.

(The means enquiries perhaps don’t happen as thoroughly as might have been imagined).

So the decision that the Court has to make is whether to seek the deduction or not and the decision the SSWP is making is whether to apply the deduction and in what amount.

Theoretically you could
(1)JR the court’s decision to seek a deduction in the first instance (perhaps on the grounds of having failed to make suitable enquiries)
(2)JR the court’s refusal to withdraw its application under reg 8
(3) MR/appeal the SSWP’s decision to apply the deduction in the first place
(4) MR/appeal the SSWP’s decision on the amount of the deduction

That’s brilliant, thank you

Could I jump on this thread and ask the following…?

Reg 9 of the Fines (Deductions…) Regs is clear that decisions made under Reg 4 can be revised. How does that sit with Sch. 3, para 10 of the UC (Decisions and Appeals) Regs, which is also referred to in the ADM - that decisions about deductions of fines are not appealable except if the decision is about whether there is sufficient benefit to make a deduction?

I’ve got myself tied up with this issue so some clarity would appreciated. Many thanks.

It’s a good point Adele, which I had completely failed to grasp in posting before. I had wrongly assumed that the reference to an unrestricted right of appeal in reg 10 of the Fines Regs would be the end of it. In fairness, I’ve never tried to seriously run an appeal like this…

The modern style references to revision, supersession and appeal were introduced into the Fines Regs by SI 1999/3178 - and the same instrument then amends the 1999 D&A Regs to curtail the right of appeal in the way you describe. That has then been copied over to the 2013 D&A Regs.

You would hope that the intention is that the two provisions would then run seamlessly together. But yes, you have the Fine Regs giving an unrestricted right of appeal, which is then immediately taken almost entirely away by the D&A Regs - subject to this enigmatic category of decisions as to “whether benefit is sufficient for a deduction to be made”.

Interestingly, in our area the DWP is telling people that they have the right of appeal *and* that they don’t have the right of appeal against the decision about the rate of deduction. We’re getting so many calls about this issue and the DWP is refusing point blank to acknowledge that Reg 4 states 5% up to a maximum. It’s so frustrating.

Many thanks for that, Elliot.

I’ve got a 24 year old single mum who’s been having £100pcm deducted for a fine, now down to £75, and has been sent in circles with UC saying it’s up to the court and the court saying it’s up to UC.

I’ve just lodged a complaint on her behalf asking UC to exercise their discretion under Reg 4 (1B) and take a lower amount than the maximum (ideally the minimum), and also to comment on the contradiction between the Fines Regs and the D&A Regs as to whether the decision is appealable, if appeal rights were advised if so.

Watch this space ....

I received a first response to my complaint about court fines (my complaint attached for context).
They confirm the position of no appeal rights but I sent a further reply, pointing out they haven’t really answered my question - why can’t they just use their discretion to reduce the court fine deduction as the law allows them to do this (no difference in wording with rent arrears in C&P regs and this is routinely reduced down to 10%)?

Client has let me know that the fines deduction this month has gone down to 21% of the standard allowance. so still pretty high. Further response awaited!